A Visit To Caterham USA

[scannon]

Quote from another thread after I realized I was doing a major hijack.

 

Al - How's the restoration going on SB1341? Any timeframe for completion?

 

I stopped by Caterham USA this morning to pick up some small parts and of course I had to have a look in the shop.

 

Al's car was sitting there, much further along than the last time I was there. Unfortunately, I didn't think to bring a camera so no pictures.

 

The engine, trans and diff are in the car for fittment but all come out soon as the frame goes off to the powdercoater.

 

The clams were on the car and being fitted for attachment into the new side panels.

 

Ben said that Al's car was back burnered while they completed the new R500 Superlite. That car is all but done and should have its license plates soon then it is off to Road & Track Magazine and I assume other magazines as well. It is painted in light blue. Once it is out of the shop then Al's car gets major attention.

 

This R500 has a 263 HP Duratec engine. What surprised me is that is not a Cosworth built engine. It is a stock Duratec with cams, upgraded valve springs and roller throttle bodies. They have variations of (IIRC) 170, 185, 200, 220 and 263 HP, all without going into the internals other than cams and valve springs. They have a higher HP version available but it gets far more expensive and includes rods and pistons among other mods.

 

After looking over the shiny new ali panels on Al's car I asked Ben if the panels were going to be polished. No, he said, they are going to be painted. Since the clams were something close to BRG I asked if the car was going to be BRG. No again. What color I asked? He told me and my first thought was: Al, what were you thinking? I don't know if Al has announced the color so I won't reveal it here.

 

BTW, of the last batch of 6 new Caterhams there is one SV unsold and still in the crate if anyone is interested. I kind of got the impression there may be some dealing room on the price.

[Alaskossie]

Skip,

I'm surprised that the R500 in Gulf Oil colors (light blue/orange stripe) is still at Rocky Mountain. It was all assembled and ready to be licensed when I was there in early December 2009.

 

Ben had asked me to not circulate any photos of it until the magazines had had a chance to test it, and publish.

 

This particular car has been sold to a fellow in California, and I would think he would be anxious to get his hands on it.

[scannon]

I suspect the new owner will have to wait awhile. I think more than one magazine is planning on testing it. By that time something will probably be broken and it will have to come back for repair. This happened with the last one they lent out for testing.

 

Tom, are those the same carbon fiber seats as in your car? I sat down in it and although it wouldn't be comfortable for a long trip I could easily spend an afternoon in it. Even with my sneakers on I was able to work the pedals. There is more room in the pedal box than the last standard size Caterham I tried on for size.

[Alaskossie]

Skip,

 

Yes, those are the same Tillet seats that I have. They fit me like a glove, and i believe they will be fine even for long stints in the saddle. I am adding an adjustable lumbar pad for added support.

 

Your recent diet seems to have done wonders-- I'm pretty sure you could not have sat in my seats last summer without becoming permanently embedded in them!

 

And perhaps you have lost weight in your feet also? Seriously, I don't think the pedal box has changed significantly with the new metric chassis. I'm pretty sure it is the same size as mine. Very hard to find additional room down there without adding external dimensions -- which is the reason for your SV.

 

Surprised that the R500 has not gone to R&T and other west-coast mags for testing already. It should be very important to get it driven and in print, in time for those young blades (and older blades) whose late-spring desires are turning to thoughts of minimalist motoring...

[pierats]

This R500 has a 263 HP Duratec engine. What surprised me is that is not a Cosworth built engine. It is a stock Duratec with cams, upgraded valve springs and roller throttle bodies. They have variations of (IIRC) 170, 185, 200, 220 and 263 HP, all without going into the internals other than cams and valve springs. They have a higher HP version available but it gets far more expensive and includes rods and pistons among other mods.

 

Sounds too good to be true.

 

I'm not sure I believe that they can get 260+ hp out of an internally UNMODIFIED Duratec. AFAIK, the Cosworth motors have extensive head work, pocketed pistons, etc. Maybe it's possible with a turbo hanging off it...

[bsimon]

I'm not sure I believe that they can get 260+ hp out of an internally UNMODIFIED Duratec. AFAIK, the Cosworth motors have extensive head work, pocketed pistons, etc. Maybe it's possible with a turbo hanging off it...

 

The 260bHP Duratec in the R500 is only 2 liters. Instead of making the engine breath better they get the extra oats with an 8500 RPM red line and big cams.

 

The 260BHP 2.3 liter Cosworth in the CSR only screws to 7500 to keep the long stroke rods and crank from emulating a hand grenade. The Cosworth is un-ported, however they do Extrudehone the ports to remove the flash and uniform the finish. I understand the pistons have a bit higher compression ratio as well.

 

I imagine you give up a bit of torque with the 2 liter, but I'll bet it sounds real nice at full song.:bigear:

[scannon]

Your recent diet seems to have done wonders-- I'm pretty sure you could not have sat in my seats last summer without becoming permanently embedded in them!

 

And perhaps you have lost weight in your feet also? Seriously, I don't think the pedal box has changed significantly with the new metric chassis. I'm pretty sure it is the same size as mine. Very hard to find additional room down there without adding external dimensions -- which is the reason for your SV.

 

I wouldn't have been permanently embedded in the seats because I wouldn't have come close to getting down into them, I would have wedged on the upper edges.

 

I had on the same sneakers I've used all along in the SV and it was a little tighter in the R500. The last standard size Caterham I sat in I couldn't operate the clutch or the brake without operating both at once and I had to turn my foot sideways to get past the brake to the throttle so somewhere along the line they must have found some space. Perhaps the front part of the transmission tunnel is narrower leaving more space in the pedal box. I'll have to try your car on for size and see if it seems any different than the R500.

[JohnCh]

I agree with Tom. I’ve heard from Ammo (Raceco) that the stock pistons and rods in the 2.0L are only safe to 7500rpm. The R500 makes peak power at 8500rpm. Also, the 10.8:1 pistons in the Euro 2.0L must be pocketed to run cams big enough to produce over 230hp. The US 2.0L from the Focus has a 10:1 compression ratio, so although they may not require pocketing for the 230hp range, I doubt they have sufficient clearance for the lift required to reach 263hp.

 

Anyone know the compression ratio Caterham uses in the UK R500? I seem to recall that it is ~12:1, but I can’t find confirmation online.

 

-John

[bsimon]

Ammo does seem to think that with aftermarket rods, everything is OK to 8500 on a stock Duratec crank. Sounds logical.

 

I'm guessing that the USA Caterham 263HP 2 liter engine must have the rods and pistons swapped. Unless maybe the Mexican built (US) Duratec 2L has forged rods??

 

The Duratec head is really amazing. It requires little to no porting work to make it breath like a monster. To get the GM XE to breath at (only close to) Duratec power levels, there's 1.5mm of material removed from all the port surfaces and bigger valves are stuffed in.

[sdca7]

The R500 does have aftermarket rods and pistons, as well as the FRPP head. The Cosworth head did not yield any more horsepower in this configuration, so they went with the less expensive head. I believe the only stock components are the block and crank. From what I remember, I think the compression is 12:1, but I might be wrong about this.

Edited February 6, 2010 by sdca7

[scannon]

I went to the local Cars & Coffee this morning. I left a little early because a friend wanted to see my shop and was short on time. Some other friends who stayed a little later at the show said Ben showed up with the R500 shortly after I left.

 

It must have been brutally cold in the R500 with only an aeroscreen between him and the wind. Temps were in the low 30s when I left for the show but I had the weather gear on the car and the heater going and was quite comfortable.

 

I'll talk to Ben next week and get his take again on the mods to the Duratec required to make 263 HP. Maybe I misunderstood.

[scannon]

I got the engine specs wrong. Ben emailed me the current setups available through Caterham USA so I am posting them here to clear up the confusion I fostered in this thread. Sorry about the bad info.

 

1) Roadsport 175/SLR300: stock engine internals, Caterham ECU, Caterham intake manifold (single throttle body), Caterham exhaust ~175bhp at the flywheel.

 

2) Roadsport 210/SLR400: stock bottom end, bigger cams, stiffer valve springs, Caterham ECU, Caterham intake manifold (single throttle body), larger injectors, Caterham exhaust ~210bhp at the flywheel.

 

3) Superlight R500: Stock 2.0L Ford Duratec block, stock crank, forged rods, billet pistons (higher compression), Ford Motorsport CNC ported cylinder head, stock valves, big cams, stiffer valve springs, internal dry sump scavenge/pressure pump, roller barrel intake manifold, big bore exhaust system, Caterham ECU, larger injectors…I think that is everything, but don’t hold me to it. ~263bhp at the flywheel.

 

 

 

We also offer three “Stage” upgrade packages:

 

1) Roller barrel intake manifold with reprogrammed Caterham ECU and larger injectors. This will take a 175bhp engine to 195, or a 210 bhp engine to 220bhp.

 

2) Cam upgrade with stiffer valve spring and larger injectors. This will take a 175bhp engine to 210bhp.

 

3) Cam + Roller barrel. This will take a 175 bhp engine straight to 220bhp.

 

We can also offer dry sump conversions for the Caterham supplied Duratec engine kits. These include oil pan, replacement oil pump, dry sump tank, oil cooler and all of the hoses and plumbing.

 

I hope that clears things up. I have not had any of these engines on a dyno personally, but our R400 press car ran 0-60 in 3.7 seconds with Car and Driver, which is about right for that power/weight.

 

-Ben

Caterham USA

303.765.0247

7info@caterhamusa.com

http://www.caterhamusa.com