WestTexasS2K Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 MMTX have you ridden in a 7 type with the F20C? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locost 5.0 Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p3/beergodrod/IMG_20110625_135541.jpg Small Block Ford is a relatively light, smaller than a SBC, easy to build to a reliable 450 Hp. SBF parts are cheaper than Chevy parts thanks to the Mustang community. Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestTexasS2K Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Locost your car came out really nice I followed the build for a long time. I love the wheels. Good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMTX Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Hi Skip, I was hoping to hear from you. I saw your car a few weeks ago on the British V8 online mag. I was very impressed. That is a very clean and tidy looking build. I also liked the fact that the off the shelf turbo manifolds were a direct fit. How much boost in PSI did it take to hit 301 hp? I noticed you are using an intercooler, but are you running water/alcohol injection? So much for the people who think Miata engines can't produce power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scannon Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Hi Skip, I was hoping to hear from you. I saw your car a few weeks ago on the British V8 online mag. I was very impressed. That is a very clean and tidy looking build. I also liked the fact that the off the shelf turbo manifolds were a direct fit. How much boost in PSI did it take to hit 301 hp? I noticed you are using an intercooler, but are you running water/alcohol injection? So much for the people who think Miata engines can't produce power. Thanks for the kind words MMTX. It did the 301 HP at 10.5 psi boost. The water/methanol injection was not working at that time, it is now functional and I have since removed the catalytic converter so HP has jumped up a bit. The turbo manifold is the standard FM piece. For a narrow body Seven you could use the manifold off the '04 - '05 Mazdaspeed Miatas. It tucks in much closer to the block. That is what FM used when they converted their Westfield to a turbocharged 1.8 engine. At the FM Summer Camp last week I got a ride in a '95 Miata with their 2 liter stroker motor running E85. Its a fully built motor running about 25 psi. It dyno'd at 460 RWHP and 420 torque. There is also a drag Miata out there making 660 RWHP and a little over 600 torque from an FM 2 liter stroker motor. Last I heard he had broken into the 9 second range in the 1/4 mile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMTX Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 MMTX have you ridden in a 7 type with the F20C? No, I haven't had that pleasure, and that is despite the fact they used to build them in the area. Please don't take my comments the wrong way. I think it is a fine way of getting reliable power in a Seven. I just was not too fond of that engine in the S2000 itself. In addition to what I said about what is really low speed drivability in the S2000, I was not impressed with the difference in the cost of the cars as new. At the time (2001) a new Miata could be had for only $18,200. Meanwhile, I could have paid over $28K for an MR2, about the same for a Z3, and About $30k for a S2000. And the reality was, if I wanted to, even a easy to install supercharger for only only about $3000 would bring the power level up higher than any of those. The total cost was simply far less. Better bang for the buck. Handling is not a Miata weak suit in that class, though my MazdaSpeed has a far better chassis than any other factory Miata I have ever driven. And if where you are attempting to go is a my car (engine, etc.) is better than another because it produces more power, you can go there. Plenty of others in this discussion will, I'm sure, be interested. I just am not that interested myself. I've driven quite a few Sevens with over 200 hp, and I don't really care about more in a street Seven. For a street Seven, 200 hp will easily outrun any reasonably prepared late model street performance car (leaving out even most of the cars barely able to pass a smog check). It's also easy to manage. I don't expect to be testing that, (been there, done that - many years ago ). Anyway, that was much more fun in a turbocharged 510. It's more fun with a car that looks like a sleeper. But it's nice to know a bike or a ZR1 Vette, 911, etc. couldn't get the better of you, just for grins. On the other hand, I'd hate to have a slow Seven. That would be like having Vette with only a 100hp motor. Just not right. BTW, I would love to see your S2K sometime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMTX Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Thanks for the kind words MMTX. It did the 301 HP at 10.5 psi boost. The water/methanol injection was not working at that time, it is now functional and I have since removed the catalytic converter so HP has jumped up a bit. The turbo manifold is the standard FM piece. For a narrow body Seven you could use the manifold off the '04 - '05 Mazdaspeed Miatas. It tucks in much closer to the block. That is what FM used when they converted their Westfield to a turbocharged 1.8 engine. At the FM Summer Camp last week I got a ride in a '95 Miata with their 2 liter stroker motor running E85. Its a fully built motor running about 25 psi. It dyno'd at 460 RWHP and 420 torque. There is also a drag Miata out there making 660 RWHP and a little over 600 torque from an FM 2 liter stroker motor. Last I heard he had broken into the 9 second range in the 1/4 mile. 301 hp at 10.5 PSI in a 1.8L is very impressive. Of course, I am comparing that to my L series L18 in a 510, running a much more primitive system. I was using a single SU with water/alcohol injection to get about 350 hp RWHP at 15 PSI. That was on a dead stock crate L18. I was probably "only" getting 250-260 hp at 10 PSI. Programmable EFI certainly makes a difference. Have you ever timed it. 0-60, 0-100 or 1/4, etc. I meant to ask about the little bitty carbon fiber wings on either side of the nose. Do they help much? I am actually expecting to see more downforce on high powered Sevens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMTX Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 MMTX have you ridden in a 7 type with the F20C? I just realized it appears you still have both the SC and the NA, according to your signature. Other than being downright jealous :drool: the NA version would be most interesting to evaluate, largely for all the reasons I have already mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 I meant to ask about the little bitty carbon fiber wings on either side of the nose. Do they help much? I am actually expecting to see more downforce on high powered Sevens. Its more than the wings, Skip also has the CSR chin installed under the nosecone. Together they are part of the aero package on the CSR. I have a CSR with the wings, reprofiled front wheel wings but not the chin and found it much more planted on the front end at the 135mph area on track than an R300 with no aero goodies I had driven the week before at Silverstone at roughly the same speed. While not scientific back to back testing on the same track, there was a noticeable difference at track speeds above 100 mph. Part of that will be the different front suspension but not all of it. Next week I will be putting on the chin spoiler, a rear diffuser and aeroscreen and will try again at another track day in October to see if I have improved high speed stability further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestTexasS2K Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 I agree the S2000 car you really had to rev to get it up to speed. With a 1300 lb weight loss and 4:44 gearing changes things. The lower torque really isn't so evident in a 7 and vtec kick is more exciting. MMTx where do you live? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubarisax Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Next week I will be putting on the chin spoiler, a rear diffuser and aeroscreen and will try again at another track day in October to see if I have improved high speed stability further. Yikes! Can't wait to see the new goodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scannon Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Programmable EFI certainly makes a difference. Have you ever timed it. 0-60, 0-100 or 1/4, etc. I meant to ask about the little bitty carbon fiber wings on either side of the nose. Do they help much? I am actually expecting to see more downforce on high powered Sevens. Changing from a Link ECU to the Hydra Nemesis gained 61 HP. No other changes, same dyno, same tech, same temps, one year laters. My Miata with a built 1.9 engine is still running a Link and only made 279 HP on the dyno last week. Some day I will have the spare cash to put a Hydra on it. It will be interesting to see if the Hydra makes as much improvement as it did on the Seven. I've never timed the car or taken it to the dragstrip. I would estimate that 0-60 is about 3.5 seconds. The chinspoiler and wings from the CSR moved the scary speed from about 120 up to 135 MPH. I'd want more aero before going any faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMTX Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 I agree the S2000 car you really had to rev to get it up to speed. With a 1300 lb weight loss and 4:44 gearing changes things. The lower torque really isn't so evident in a 7 and vtec kick is more exciting. To clarify for others what I said about the torque band of the F20C, I suspect it might actually be an advantage to have low torque at the low to mid RPM range in a Seven due to less wheelspin at lower speeds. The hp and torque at high RPM's will certainly be most useful once the car is firmly underway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMTX Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 I just wanted the thank you for all the information you gave me on your crossflow, which, of course included more info off the newsgroup than what was posted. Thanks MMTX On the plus sides It is easy and relatively inexpensive to build and repair. It won't set the pavement on fire, but it also means that there is less chance that my modest driving talent outstrips the power available do stupid things with (unfortunately this never a problem while riding sports bikes) Not that it matters a lot, but next to the A series BMC, it is somewhat historically correct. With a bit of cursing you can lift it out of the car yourself (if you have to) A lot of interstate journeys can be a bit boring if you are not constantly listening and waiting for something oily to let loose in spectacular fashion. You don't need a degree in electrical engineering / computing to tune it. On the downsides As driving talent improves a few more horse power would be very nice Shifting at ~6000rpm seem somewhat pedestrian in comparison to the 12,000+ available from any of the bike derivatives (or even the 9000 redline of honda s2000 lump) Akin to death & taxes it is a fairly safe bet that it will let go (probably in a spectacular oily manner) at some point in the next few years. We (have to) laugh in the face of emissions tests... [/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubarisax Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 Might I suggest the the Cosworth built Ford Duratec. Reving to 8,500 rpm is so sweet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMTX Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 Might I suggest the the Cosworth built Ford Duratec. Reving to 8,500 rpm is so sweet! Yeah, great engine, but in my case, I really don't want an engine that has to run that high. Also, for a street Seven, I'm fine with 180-200hp. That's enough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 Might I suggest the the Cosworth built Ford Duratec. Reving to 8,500 rpm is so sweet! Hmmm....the rev limit on the 2.3L is 7500. Hope you have the 2L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubarisax Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 Hmmm, the secret sauce is the billet crankshaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusaNostra Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 Hmmm, the secret sauce is the billet crankshaft. So the 8,500 rpm billet crank has different stroke length & counterweights ? ...or the same configuration from stock (only has a better balancing)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubarisax Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 I'm not 100% sure how they do it, the stroke and bore are the same. I think the difference is in the balancing. In addition to the stock Caterham 260 HP motor, it also has 13:1 compression ratio, different cams, heavy duty head bolts and big end bearings. I had Cosworth set my redline at 8,200 just to be safe. I also chickened out and did not get the 14:1 CR pistons. Here is a Cosworth brochure on the motor and various options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now