Ethanol in fuel

[jimrankin]

I couldn't get the link to open but it's probably like a lot of them I've visited before.

There are vast oil reserves in a great number of places but there are some real problems with most of them. What everyone wants is easy to get at light sweet crude. Getting oil out of saturated rock, oil sands or deep under sea presents a lot of problems with just how much energy you spend to get at it and refined for market or how many risk you are willing to take. Also, some of it is high in sulfer or other contaminants making it a problem to refine.

We are dealing with a limited supply of the "good stuff" no matter what you read about "total deposits".

The amount of oil used in the USA alone per day is staggering and as the rest of the world developes total use is only going to get higher.

There are no easy answers and no easy way to make changes in what has become a "life style" in developed nations. We tend to forget that before the advent of "cars for the mass consumer" there were 'city folk" and "country folk" because you had to live within walking or in some cases city mass transit of your job. Now it's considered normal to have 50-70 mile round trip work commute, alone in your SUV.

Every time I see "hybrid" on a full sized never worked pick up or a V8 powered SUV plugging along in commute traffic with a sole occupant I have to laugh. Do these people actually think that is an answer?

Do I have the answers, no. Do I understand that there is a problem, yes. It seem we are all in the same boat. It's sinking, but it sure is fast and stylish. LOL.

[JohnK]

There gotta be a lot of different facets to this problem and a solution that will actually work (must by why people have such trouble predicting the future ;-) ). Take for e.g.

http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-01-miscanthus-giganteus-great-potential-alternative.html

What's the best way out of the thicket?

[ihckb2]

Subject: OIL - you'd better sit down.

 

 

 

Here's an interesting read, important and verifiable information :

 

About 6 months ago, the writer was watching a news program on oil and

one of the Forbes Bros. was the guest. The host said to Forbes, "I am going to

ask you a direct question and I would like a direct answer; how much oil

does the U.S. have in the ground?" Forbes did not miss a beat, he said, "more

than all the Middle East put together." Please read below.

 

The U. S. Geological Service issued a report in April 2008 that only

scientists and oil men knew was coming, but man was it big. It was a

revised report (hadn't been updated since 1995) on how much oil was in

this area of the western 2/3 of North Dakota, western South Dakota, and extreme eastern Montana ....... check THIS out:

http://bakkenshale.net/bakkenshalemap.html

 

The Bakken is the largest domestic oil discovery since Alaska's Prudhoe

Bay, and has the potential to eliminate all American dependence on foreign

oil. The Energy Information Administration (EIA) estimates it at 503 billion

barrels. Even if just 10% of the oil is recoverable... at $107 a barrel,

we're looking at a resource base worth more than $5..3 trillion.

 

"When I first briefed legislators on this, you could practically see

their jaws hit the floor. They had no idea.." says Terry Johnson, the Montana

Legislature's financial analyst.

 

"This sizable find is now the highest-producing onshore oil field found

in the past 56 years," reports The Pittsburgh Post Gazette. It's a

formation known as the Williston Basin, but is more commonly referred to as the

'Bakken.' It stretches from Northern Montana, through North Dakota and

into Canada.. For years, U. S. oil exploration has been considered a dead

end. Even the 'Big Oil' companies gave up searching for major oil wells

decades ago. However, a recent technological breakthrough has opened up

the Bakken's massive reserves.... and we now have access of up to 500

billion barrels. And because this is light, sweet oil, those billions of barrels

will cost Americans just $16 PER BARREL!

 

That's enough crude to fully fuel the American economy for 2041 years

straight. And if THAT didn't throw you on the floor, then this next one

should - because it's from 2006!

 

U. S. Oil Discovery- Largest Reserve in the World

 

Stansberry Report Online - 4/20/2006

 

Hidden 1,000 feet beneath the surface of the Rocky Mountains lies the

largest untapped oil reserve in the world. It is more than 2 TRILLION

barrels. On August 8, 2005 President Bush mandated its extraction. In

three and a half years of high oil prices none has been extracted. With this

motherload of oil why are we still fighting over off-shore drilling?

 

They reported this stunning news: We have more oil inside our borders,

than all the other proven reserves on earth. Here are the official estimates:

 

- 8-times as much oil as Saudi Arabia

 

- 18-times as much oil as Iraq

 

- 21-times as much oil as Kuwait

 

- 22-times as much oil as Iran

 

- 500-times as much oil as Yemen

 

- and it's all right here in the Western United States .

 

HOW can this BE? HOW can we NOT BE extracting this? Because the

environmentalists and others have blocked all efforts to help America

become independent of foreign oil! Again, we are letting a small group of

people dictate our lives and our economy.....WHY?

 

James Bartis, lead researcher with the study says we've got more oil in

this very compact area than the entire Middle East -more than 2 TRILLION

barrels untapped. That's more than all the proven oil reserves of crude oil in

the world today, reports The Denver Post.

 

Don't think 'OPEC' will drop its price - even with this find? Think

again!

It's all about the competitive marketplace, - it has to. Think OPEC just

might be funding the environmentalists?

 

Got your attention yet? Now, while you're thinking about it, do this:

 

Pass this along. If you don't take a little time to do this, then you

should stifle yourself the next time you complain about gas prices - by

doing NOTHING, you forfeit your right to complain.

 

Now I just wonder what would happen in this country if every one of you

sent this to every one in your address book.

 

By the way...this is all true. Check it out at the link below!!!

 

GOOGLE it, or follow this link. It will blow your mind.

 

http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1911 http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1911>

http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1911 http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1911> >

[WestTexasS2K]

I know that Dakotas are booming. There is a huge housing shortage there now

[jimrankin]

The report about ours and Canada's reserves is no secret... seen it on a bunch of other sites and watched the discussions go round and round. What I have gained from digesting most of this is that the reports are "true", the Dakotas oil is there, just like the Canadian Oil Sands reserveds are there and way bigger than all the middle east reserves combined. The problem comes from the "technically" available nature of the recovery. You will note that most of the oil recovered so far is from a few of the many wells already drilled. It's there, we can get at it, it's just not as cheap and easy as it sounds.

Kind of like Gold, we have recovered "almost no measurable percentage" of the gold underground in California alone, but that doesn't mean it's profitable to go after the 99.9% we haven't dug up yet, even at the crazy price it's at right now.

Oil recovery technology is improving and oil prices have risen (even considering to overall fluctuations) so oil locked in shale or coating grains of sand is becoming more profitable to go after.

The real truth about oil is it's only about the money. Right now middle east oil is easy to get at, still highly profitable for the big players, and affordable to the point that we, the end user, will buy it without much more than a whimper about the cost.

As for the "environmentalist" being the problem, get real. If it were a football game and the "Enviro's" were playing the "Big Oils's" it would be the BO's up by a few hundred points in the first quarter.

[oilteq]

Jim

 

This is probably obvious to everyone else, but I still do not know why ethanol fuel is so important to you. You are apparently willing to make significant life-style sacrifices, but how will it make your life better?

 

Blaine

[jimrankin]

I think you missed it. Ethanol is NOT important to me. In fact, right now, the way ethanol is being made, and pushed on us, I neither agree with or makes any sense to me. The point from the beginning has been that we, as a people in this country, are not going to give up our "automotive" lifestile and that barring some really fantastic technological breakthrough, combustible fuel is going to be the basic power source. We do not have the choice to "use it or not", we live in an industrialized suburbanized nation and it's pretty much drive or starve.

As for "sacrifices", I don't think that deciding that commuting in a fully tricked out MINI Cooper S instead of a full sized pick up was a "sacrifice". Driving a Smart Car or hybrid might have been, for me anyway, a "sacrifice" of some kind, but one you notice I did not make.

Thinking a bit ahead when planning my day or week, driving a fun car that gets twice the MPG of my pick up and trying to help my employees ride together really hasn't impacted my "lifestyle" at all.

We are going to burn fuel, period. The point is, how much do you need to?

This forum is about fun cars so any other questions to me about anything but them, fun cars, should be private messaged.

[oilteq]

Jim

 

You are right—I missed it entirely. I am glad I asked for clarification, and thank you for the response. We agree in that I do not want ethanol (or anything else) rammed down my throat, and I have driven only 4-cylinder vehicles since 1985. My favorites were an Elise and two Birkins.

 

Blaine

[speedwagon]

for me it is drive or starve------- it is just what I prefer to drive.

[danilo]

You guys are in for a shock. China's population is "caring up" at a rate Double that of USA. They are also paying $90K ! for a Buick (taxes)

I've noticed that used cars in the US have what I regard as astronomical mileages on them. You guys seem all think nothing about driving 50/75 miles to your jobs.. each way. Without mincing words that's just Insane.

Living more than a 20 min drive from one's workplace is Certifiable and clearly unsustainable. Wise up or lose.

[Z3 Stalker]

As a Canadian I expect to put 60K km (40K miles) on my vehicle this year just going to work and back, not everyone cal live 20 minutes away from their employment.

[Mondo]

That's funny.

You can't be serious about not being more than 20 minutes from your work... Obviously you haven't seen housing prices in parts of California (even now). Nor the traffic...

[jimrankin]

I'm not sure it wes correct but I did see it stated once that there were quite a few more registered motor vehicles in America than there were people. China may be "caring up" but I bet it's still something like one car for every one hunderd people.

One of the things we don't think about in the US is the taxes some other people pay yearly for keeping a car. California jumped the "re-registration fees" way up over the last decade or two but I can still remember paying $5 a year on some of my "old" cars like my MGA's, the Jag and my trusty '66 GMC "Hippy Van". Now, I let my wife pay everything, because I just don't want to know. LOL.