class warfare?

[Mondo]

I didn't mean to offend anyone (except maybe reality show watchers). Just that it's not good for democratic societies like ours to get so out of whack in relation to poor/middle class/wealthy ratios (which the video demonstrated much better than my rant).

 

I think "structural unemployement" is coming our way too (a bit off).

I read an article where positions like para-legals and other researcher type jobs are disappearing due to the ease of getting information nowadays.

We have a super large warehouse here for Target. The semi-trucks back into the loading dock, give the warehouseman the request and items are automatically stacked, palletized and put in the truck... nobody on forklifts etc..

Next is the driverless car, legal on California roads now. Trucking would seem to be a no brainer for established routes...

60 Minutes had a bit about automation and that one reason manufacturing is coming back to the U.S. is it's getting cheaper to automate jobs even at China's salaries.

 

 

.

Edited March 9, 2013 by Mondo

[WestTexasS2K]

I just attended a meeting for 4 days last week for our pension board. There was a speaker their that talked about some manufacturing coming back to the USA because of low fuel cost like natural gas which is 1/4 the price compared to other nations. It hard to imagine fuel cost here is cheap but in comparison to Europe I guess that is true.

[ayseven]

Well, it took a while, but I would call that GOOD news!

[rikker]

Why do you fixate on the white trash celebraties on TV? They only exist because people waste time watching them.

 

I'm not a one percenter, nor at the bottom of the pile. Literally started with nothing, and have worked hard.

 

Everywhere I look, I see the government killing the independent nature of this country - why think for yourself when big brother can think for you? The crap going on in our school system is maddening. That's the real problem.

 

For every aristocrat, there are hundreds of VERY wealthy SELF made people out there who've done it despite the government, not because of it.

 

All the wealth you see in various tech companies in different industries, or even traditional businesses from restaurant chains to retailers - they have nothing to do with government. To say that they're all crooks, is a gross mischaracterization. I do agree there is a lot of fraud in and around government. Hence the smaller the better.

 

So if education is the core problem what do you think is the answer ?

Do you think it might be a good idea to look at the many nations that do better ?

How about Finland for example, and many of the others that lead the U S & A?...oh, shit, sorry, I forgot... they are socialist education systems.

But regardless of communist / socialist or whatever the basic for growth has to be through well taught kids whatever your politics, and sadly the US is at the back of the field now.I feel if it were not for the massive amount of wealth this country has amassed over the last 100 years and the military might that overwhelms the others even if they grouped, ( wow, wotifthat woz spent on health and education ? ).. ahh fuck it, nothing is going to change here.

Edited April 3, 2013 by rikker

[slngsht]

So if education is the core problem what do you think is the answer ?

Do you think it might be a good idea to look at the many nations that do better ?

How about Finland for example, and many of the others that lead the U S & A?...oh, shit, sorry, I forgot... they are socialist education systems.

But regardless of communist / socialist or whatever the basic for growth has to be through well taught kids whatever your politics, and sadly the US is at the back of the field now.I feel if it were not for the massive amount of wealth this country has amassed over the last 100 years and the military might that overwhelms the others even if they grouped, ( wow, wotifthat woz spent on health and education ? ).. ahh fuck it, nothing is going to change here.

 

The answers are simple. I'm not against examining the best ideas from other countries. Nothing wrong with that. Enlighten me on Finland's education system. I'm betting if it's any good, it doesn't just promote students to the next grade when they're not performing.

[speedwagon]

Do not like politics, But for the education system in the public school-- let's concentrate on teaching them to the highest level they can achieve ( an 8th grade level that is real is better than graduating high school and not knowing enough to enter college ). And I also think that equal and if not free at least easily paid for with a part time job higher education should in place) None of this first tier crap that is only available to those with millions. We will go forward working our minds.

[Kitcat]

NY Times article today said the whole public school/private school/voucher debate is irrelevant: Either we do intense early education (age 3-5), or forget it-nothing helps underprivileged kids catch up to the avantages that most of our kids had. Why shd we care? High unemployment, crime, prison system come to mind. Folks who hate spending $5K a year on early ed have no problem spending $30K a year to lock that guy up once he turns 18. So let's say normal inflation and the guy does 30 years. That equals $1M. So do I expect things to change now? Nope, just food for thot.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Kitcat

[rikker]

The answers are simple. I'm not against examining the best ideas from other countries. Nothing wrong with that. Enlighten me on Finland's education system. I'm betting if it's any good, it doesn't just promote students to the next grade when they're not performing.

 

 

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people-places/Why-Are-Finlands-Schools-Successful.html

 

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2019676789_finland14m.html

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/13/education/from-finland-an-intriguing-school-reform-model.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/12/what-americans-keep-ignoring-about-finlands-school-success/250564/

[speedwagon]

Agree. We are a third world country now and need to become humble enough to look outside for ideas. The internet education is going to put most of our universities in the same shape as the newspapers. Early start is very important and if we do not pay attention we will be left further behind. My ideas lean toward 1- free prenatal care for all, (the cost savings would easily pay for it even with our sick health care system) 2- more attention to early learning exposure to education. 3- Fix our education system and start firing at the top, teachers are but a very small part of the problem, and 4- Start jailing only those who actually need to be there and give those a chance to improve their education and not release them until they have the ability to survive outside, and if they return-- whatever. My mother (from the old country) taught me to read a newspaper before starting school, once ahead you stay ahead, never had the need for more than 11th grade because every thing that I needed to know was at hand. Life is not fair and will never be, but we can hope.

[ayseven]

The sad thing nowadays is that people lose so much faith in the "system" (which has always given advantage to a small group over the masses) that they give up. This is the ONLY failure of all of us. Some of us are just very very lucky by virtue of where we were born.

[drew...]

"Finland, a nation of about 5.5 million people" - I think that one statement says a whole lot about their success. Rather than the US looking to Washington to tell us what to do with education leave it to the states and local school boards. Then we can all be amazed by the successes coming out the states and school districts that are willing to be entreprenuerial in their methods allowing the poor performing districts to emulate those successes.

[slngsht]

"Finland, a nation of about 5.5 million people" - I think that one statement says a whole lot about their success. Rather than the US looking to Washington to tell us what to do with education leave it to the states and local school boards. Then we can all be amazed by the successes coming out the states and school districts that are willing to be entreprenuerial in their methods allowing the poor performing districts to emulate those successes.

Exactly.

[slomove]

...... Rather than the US looking to Washington to tell us what to do with education leave it to the states and local school boards. Then we can all be amazed by the successes coming out the states and school districts that are willing to be entreprenuerial in their methods allowing the poor performing districts to emulate those successes.

 

To my knowledge, the federal influence on education is anyway pretty insignificant, except some test standards and guidelines that nobody follows. Otherwise the states and local school boards do make all the critical decisions about education like funding, curriculum, hiring practices and so on. And, looking at the results, they mostly do a pretty shitty job. If some entity happens to do a better job that does not mean others will emulate that because the decisions are mostly political and to benefit certain interests (e.g. teachers' job security or conservative education agendas) and not focused on education results for the benefit of the kids.

 

I would venture a guess countries like Finland are successful because they just have a well functioning system that is centrally enforced. I also read that the school system may sometimes get involved in a way that would not be acceptable in the US like telling you that your kid is way too fat and that you should do something about it.

[rikker]

but children are children wherever they live and there are models in use around the world that work, and work so much better that the one in the US.Whether or not anyone chooses to use these systems is another question.

I fail to see what relevance the population size had to do with anything?

Edited April 5, 2013 by rikker

[MHKflyer52]

To my knowledge, the federal influence on education is anyway pretty insignificant, except some test standards and guidelines that nobody follows. Otherwise the states and local school boards do make all the critical decisions about education like funding, curriculum, hiring practices and so on. And, looking at the results, they mostly do a pretty shitty job. If some entity happens to do a better job that does not mean others will emulate that because the decisions are mostly political and to benefit certain interests (e.g. teachers' job security or conservative education agendas) and not focused on education results for the benefit of the kids.

 

I would venture a guess countries like Finland are successful because they just have a well functioning system that is centrally enforced. I also read that the school system may sometimes get involved in a way that would not be acceptable in the US like telling you that your kid is way too fat and that you should do something about it.

 

slomove I have to agree with you. Face it the education system here in the USA is not very good when you look at what countries are producing the most engineers and doctors as it is not the United States of America which is a real shame.

Just my belief and opinion.

[speedwagon]

It is not that we cannot, it is that we do not. for example look to our military schools, they manage to teach more in a shorter time and have been doing so for years, in ww2 they were soloing pilots with 10 hrs. And there are some very good examples in our own school system, just not nearly enough. It is political and mostly biting off your nose to spite your face- ie; short term money, power and miss guidance. Will never change. Parents supplement your kids education at home, it is your best bet for the least bucks. The amazing thing is; that it would be easy to form a group to do a fix using the people who posted right here. !!

[rikker]

But you know what, bleating about these issues or each persons answers to problems on an obscure forum like this never are not going to change anything, we are lazy and self serving.Having to go out and march or act on a cause is hard work; getting older and being able to rant on a keypad in the comfort of your own home is not that tough, of course we can get active if a policy affects us or our family personally.I am sure that if you 6 year old was killed by a loon with an assault rifle then your view may well change view gun laws.

For example with being lazy, like I am...

I used to fight every speeding ticket , reason being most of them were speed traps where the roads were straight and clear and with little chance of risk to others, it was OK to drive faster than the posted limit; yet these were always the places that the police( at the bottom of the hill) chose to set up traps, this was the place that most of us would determine what a safe and reasonable speed is drive at, yet this was the place we get hammered.It has nothing to do with "Protect and Serve" but all about $$$$$ as a source of revenue.The dangerous spots where accidents did happen were rarely policed.

As I say I used to, won about half, then got lazy and just paid up.But if enough of us complained then it might just work for any issue, be it health care or education or police priorities.

As far as I can see most of us do not give a shit unless it affects us personally;

back in 1995 I was in Fort Myers, Florida having just built a new house along with many others on my cul de sac, we all got our first tax bill at the same time and talked about it at a July 4th BBQ, the elders were pissed off at having to pay $$$$ on education for "someone else's kids" yet had no problem with a bond for a new jail.

It is all about " I am alright Jack".

I believe that every person has the right to healthcare and education,if they are hurt or unable to work then we help them.

[slngsht]

I home school one kid and took school system to court last year.

 

Maryland is infringing on my 2nd amendment rights, so I will move out of this state and take my tax dollars with me.

 

Do those count?

 

Everybody has some cause that gets them worked up.

 

You're right that discussing it on a forum doesn't change anything. It's more for discussion than change.

[ayseven]

I think discussing these things on this type of forum is very healthy. These are people who are not, for the most part, from what I can see, idiots, and can all influence people in their small, but significant, spheres. Everyone is important, and that is kind of the point of all this, isn't it? A lot of places in the world don't let you yabber on about anything you want (mostly) like this one does.

 

Of course, maybe they all do, and we've been brainwashed.

[WestTexasS2K]

Slngsht come on to Texas. Low unemployment stable economy and no state income tax. Bring your guns and ammo. You will be welcome here with all of us other "backward, unsifistcated folk.