Davemk1

FWIW - I owned and competed in solo events for 4 years in a Seven and drove to every event in the car. I did local in-town events and out of town events over 100 miles away and I never had a mechanical that left me stranded. I drove to most events with weather gear at least with me and I used my custom tire rack to carry tires. I say the above in case some might think that I'm new to Sevens and didn't know how small they really are. I'm not at all concerned about getting to and from events. I would like a car with the exhaust on the far side of the car (Duratec instead of the Zetec my Birkin had) to keep me a bit cooler during the heat of summer and I want to be able to fit into the car. I'll be keeping my eyes open for a used car that I can make work by lowering the floor and putting a tall bar on or maybe I'll buy a new Birkin kit and lower the floor and put their tall bar on and then have a new top made to fit the tall bar. We'll see.

I think you are probably correct. However I would still very much like the option to compete with weather gear in place. I did an event with my Birkin years ago and it rained over an inch that day - that was really wet and cold. I had the top in place and I stayed reasonably dry. I took the side curtains off for runs and then put them back on so I didn't sit in a puddle. I'm also proud to say I took FTD with the top in place. So for me, a top is important for a number of reasons. Dave

I didn't mean to insinuate that you would have measured incorrectly at all........I just wanted to be sure we were on the same page. Great photo BTW. Thanks so much, Dave

Thanks man - that does help. I assume you measured from the corner made by the floor and the rear bulkhead in a direct line up to the bar? If so that could work with a lowered floor. My Elise is 39" as described above so the 38" plus 1.5" would do it. The Elise, with a Tillet seat mounted on the floor (without slider rails), gives me just enough room so that the helmet just brushes the underside of the top. Not perfect but fine for the occasional rainy solo. Do you have a photo of your car with the FIA bar installed? Do you have a top that fits over it? Thanks again, dave

Thanks again for the towing info. It's good to know there may be options there. But the real issue at hand is getting a car I fit in..........unless I do that getting the car around is really moot. Anyone have a car with a tall bar and/or lowered seat that they can measure for me? Thanks again, dave

Maybe - it would really push the limits of the Jetta so I won't be going that direction. I'll be driving the car to and from events any way you cut it. dave P.S. - I thought it worthwhile to check the manual on the Jetta to see what the tow rating is and they list a max of 1000 lbs. I'm sure one can go past that a bit and still be safe but 1300 lbs of car and 500 lbs of trailer would be pretty darn far over the limit. In the end the real issue isn't driving the car to events but finding a car that I will fit in.........the rest is pretty easy stuff.

Thanks for chiming in gents - I'm pretty darn sure I will never own a tow vehicle and certainly not a 4x4. I've live in snow country and the mountains most of my life and in my experience nothing is worse in the snow than a tall heavy vehicle. I drive a Jetta TDi wagon with studded snows in the winter and you drive past all the trucks and SUV's stuck on the side of the road to get to the ski area. So any Seven will be driven to events. I will definitely need full weather gear for the car. 100 mile drives in temps in the low 30's without it is just ridiculously cold. It's damn cold even with the gear and without it it would be undoable. It looks like the weather gear on the Ultralite might be emergency use only and not something I'd want to deal with for longer drives. I've traded notes with Mr. Brink and he told me of the new larger Birkin. I'd rather stay with the smaller car if I could. If there is no other way to get into a Seven the larger car might make sense but it will not fun in solo as the smaller car would be. That and I don't think I want to be one of the first to buy a new model - i think I'd like to be sure the bugs are fully sorted before I plunk my money down. I think I will just need to find some folks who can get some floor to roll bar measurements from their cars and then take the leap from there. Dave

Anyone know if the WCM Ultralite guys are still in biz? I googled them and the site is down. dave

I had though of the same thing...........cool car. I don't think they offer a full weather gear option though. Years ago they had photos of one and I'm not sure humans would have fit in the car. Does anyone have a ultralite with full weather gear? dave

Thanks so much for the reply and your ideas/thoughts. Here are a few thoughts/responses/answers/questions - Like I said my Birkin had a live axle and there was nothing to hook to but I know a guy with an IRS Birkin and there is a lot of solid looking stuff that the Suby diff bolts to and it seems to locate the diff fore/aft as well as sideways with a descent load path. This is what made me think I might be able to make a hitch mount. The trailer and tires I tow behind the Elise is less than 300 lbs in total and the tongue weight is about 30 pounds. The tongue weight is a none issue and it would just be braking loads that would be the big deal for the hitch. I didn't know that Caterham offers a tall bar and hood. Good info I'll need to look into. Most Caterhams are outside my cost comfort range (I want to remain married) but maybe I could afford a used one and then lower the floor, put a tall bar and hood on it. That might work. Living in Montana has many advantages but it is far from temperate! During race season the temps in the morning can be in the upper 20's and the highs in the afternoon can be in the mid 90's. Not usually on the same day of course but a 50° swing is common with the altitude and very dry air. But 20's to 90's over a season certainly. I also need it to be able to fit full weather gear not only to stay warm but to stay dry during afternoon storms on the way home from events so a shade top wouldn't be enough I'm afraid. Does anyone here have a Caterham with a lowered seat and tall bar? If so a few simple measurements would help me out a lot. Thanks again, Dave

I feel silly for not thinking about that - good idea. But from what I hear he loves the car and would not part with it (smart man) and since it has a live axle I can't see how I could mount a hitch to it..........so even if he did want to sell it wouldn't fit my needs. Thanks for the thought. Dave

Good morning, My name is Dave and I live in Bozeman MT. A number of years ago I was active here and I owned a Birkin and loved the car. I used the car on the street for fun and autocrossed it seriously. At some point I wanted to make a change and have a bit more comfort during trips to and from out of town events so I got rid of the Birkin and got a 2005 Elise. I've been racing the Elise for about 4 years now and have been doing well in it with a few state championships in the bag and while I like it very much I find myself missing the Seven with its lack of weight and a less tail happy weight distribution. Driving the Elise at the limit can become oversteer management and this can become frustrating at times. So the short of it is that I'm considering going back to a Seven. My 'needs' with a Seven can be a bit difficult and this is why I am taking up your time reading - I'd like to get some feedback and ideas from those here with more experience. So in no particular order - 1) I will once again be driving the car on the street and racing solo with it and I need to be able to drive it to and from events up to 100 miles from home. This means I need to be able to carry race tires and tools with me. When I owned a Birkin I made a quick release rack for the rear that held my tires and this worked OK but I didn't love putting that much weight on the back of the car. I would have set it up to tow a very small and light trailer but the car had a live rear axle and this made it very difficult to find anything solid to hook a hitch up to. I have a hitch set-up for the Elise and it makes it super simple to do out of town events. I was thinking that a car with an IRS might have more chassis members to hook to that might allow me to make a custom hitch. Has anyone done this? I've attached photos of the old Birkin set up and the current Elise. It would really rock if I could use this trailer behind a Seven. Buying a truck and trailer so I could trailer the car to events is not an option. 2) I'm tall - 6'4" and I made my 1999 Birkin S3 fit very well with a few mods and while I could do something similar to a new Seven I'm less enthusiastic about making so much stuff. With the Birkin I modified things so that I was sitting directly on the floor to get me as low as possible and then I made a new roll bar that was 3" taller than the stock Birkin bar. And because I needed to drive the car in the rain I had a new top made that fit over the tall bar. It all came out very good but I'm not sure I want to go through that all again. So I'm wondering the following - a) does anyone know of a type of Seven that might fit me in the car with the top in place AND a helmet on right out of the box. I'm sure some Sevens have more head room than others but don't know the details. b) Does anyone know how much the Caterham lowered floor kits actually lower the floor? c) I know that Birkin offers a tall roll bar option but they do not offer a top to fit over said bar. It is 2" taller than the stock bar. If I were able to lower the floor in the Birkin by 1" to 1.5" and get the tall bar it just might be tall enough. I would need to have a new top made again but that is just giving a guy money and while I'm not a wealthy man I might rather spend some money and save some time. 3) Last but not least - the Birkin I owned had a Zetec which put the exhaust headers right near my feet and this was a bit warm when driving 100 miles home on a 95° day. I see many of the newer cars use the Duratec and it has the exhaust on the other side. Do folks find this keeps the driver's foot well somewhat cooler? I'm apologize for the long note and I appreciate your taking the time to read it and look forward to any thoughts and advice you might have. I'm not in a hurry to make the change and would most likely do so at the end of the solo season and either build a new car or modify a used one over the L O N G Montana winter. Thanks again, dave

The dead are always quiet. dave

Thanks for the note. I plan on checking in periodically to see what's up and to drool over your cars. I just received the Elise on Thursday so I'm just getting to know it by spending lots of time getting it cleaned and checked out. The autocross thing is far from over, I'm just changing classes. For this upcoming season I'll be in SS and the long term plan is to put a blower on the car and move to ASP or XP or something like that. We'll see. It will be fun to have someone to race against in my class for a change. There are a few Elises and a large number of Vettes for me to play with in Montana. I had one of only two DM cars in Montana and the other wasn't serious. Frankly showing up with the Birkin at most events was like showing up with a gun to a knife fight. I did 12 events this last season all across the state. I took 11 class wins, 9 FTD and 6 PAX wins in that car. The one time I didn't win class was taking second behind past National Champ Ron Babb. Ironically the Elise is attractive because it will be a bit slower.......... and the heat and AC will be enjoyed too.......... especially the heat! I hope the new owner of the car joins the group and tries some autocross. He's got a very good car for it. Stay well and Happy Holidays. Dave

Just to put a bit of closure on this - I ended up trading the Birkin for an Lotus Elise to Dick Brink @ Texas Motor Works and he in turn found it a new home with a Gentleman in Maine named Michael. I'll be sure Michael knows about this site so he can have as much fun as I have here. Stay well and enjoy your Sevens. Dave

What a wonderful car. The owner of this one will be pleased. Dave

Hey Gary, Thanks for the note and for the kind words. I fit pretty well in the Elise actually. I could use a bit more head room with the top up and a helmet on but I've ordered a seat lowering kit that should give me the 3/4" I need to fit well. I look forward to a new challenge with the Elise. I love the process of figuring out how to set the car up and drive it as it wants to be driven. That is such a fun puzzle for me. I worked with the Birkin for a number of seasons and got to the point where the learning curve had really flattened out. Showing up with the Birkin at most autocross events is a bit like showing up with a gun to a knife fight. I did 12 events this season in it and won my class 11 times (taking one 2nd behind past National Champ Ron Babb by .8 seconds in over 195 seconds of racing), took 9 FTD and won pax 6 times and I'm most proud to say I went another full season without once being beat by a car driven to the event. With all this blowing of my own horn I'm trying to say that I feel I've taken the Birkin about as far as I can and I'd like to be in a different class for a few years. That combined with the creature comforts the Elise will give on all those below freezing mornings on the ay to events has me excited. I took the Birkin out yesterday for a spin and I must say I got very nostalgic and sad about parting with a car that was such a handful when I first got it and is now so easy to drive so quickly. But I can't afford two toy cars so it has to go. Thanks again. The Birkin has been fun and I will never forget the drives and all victories in it. Dave

That is a very pretty car........... Man I love it in orange. I’m very proud to say that the Chrome Orange Elise parked next to the Birkin is mine. Dick Brink sourced it for me and I’ve traded my Birkin to Mr. Brink for it and it is being shipped to Bozeman soon.. ‘My’ Birkin is still in my garage but will soon be headed to Texas so that Dick can find it a new home. So if anyone is interested please give Dick a call. I bought the Birkin from Dick originally and he treated me very fairly during that first transaction so when it came time for a different car I went back to him. The Birkin is listed on his site with lots of photos and more info than most will want. Here’s a link to my old car - http://www.texasmotorworks7.com/webtemplate.aspx?IID=2430444 The Birkin is very well sorted and reliable and will make someone a very nice car. If I lived in a warmer, dryer place I’d keep it forever but this being Montana I finally got practical and got a car with doors. The car pulls hard with a very flat and high torque curve and is super easy to drive at the limit. In short it’s a ball. Thanks again and all the best to you all. Enjoy those wonderful cars! I hope someday I can afford two ‘toy’ cars and if that happens I’ll be back in a Birkin. All the best, Dave

Nearn was a man of conviction who put his money where his mouth was. Can you imagine what a risk it was to buy so many Sevens that Lotus couldn't turn down the order and then to buy the rights to the Seven so he could produce a car that the world really didn't want at the time? Yet his passion drew people to him and the the Seven and all of us, as well as all the companies produce Sevens, owe Nearn a huge debt of graditude. Without him the Seven would have died a quiet death but instead it's still going decades later. Long Live Nearn. dave

Right you are. I had to look at the paperwork but 30 they are. If anyone is interested I still have the car. I've had a few serious bites but no one has taken it home. Let me know if you are interested and make me an offer. Dave

Have you been able to corner weight the car? If not it can work wonders for the on-the-limit handling. If you don't have scales (few do, some friends and I went in on a good set) see if you can borrow some. It's worth the effort. It's also important to make sure that all the setting are done in the right order and with weight in the car. The weight in the car changes things in a rather large way. I set mine in this order - ride height thrust angle front camber front toe corner weight recheck ride height If you like doing this kind of stuff it's good fun. If you don't it seems silly and unnecessary. I hope it's fun for you. dave

With my settings the lower A arm rises slightly as it goes from the wheel to the chassis. In other words the chassis end is a just a bit higher. Dave

The bolts are 4 on 100mm and I think the offset is 35. I'd have to check. 30 or 35. Dave

I just measured mine for you and I think my front shocks are 290 mm eye - eye and my front height is 5 5/16" and the rear is 6 3/16" without my 190 pounds in the car. I hope that helps. Dave

I measured from the spot on the other chassis rail where the rear section of the front A arm attaches. It seems to be the lowest point up front. Then I measured the rear right in front of the rear fender - right where you indicated on your drawing. Of course like all settings it should be done with weight in the seat. Dave