Tail of the Dragon - LEO Presence

[Al N.]

I generally check tailofthedragon.com (monday), and killboy.com (wed) weekly to see what's going on down at the Dragon, and all I can say after reading this week's installments (killboy pix not up until Wed, but some good commentary) is WE ARE LUCKY to have made our meet when we did.

 

It seems that, in the wake of the fatalities that happened the week after we left, police presence has been stepped up quite a bit.

 

Check out the pix and details here and here.

 

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I renamed this thread to make it "more relevant to actual post content"!

[WestTexasS2K]

Man that is rediculous the way the THP is treating folks maybe someone should set up a video system showing thier speed and a forward and rear facing camera. If the cops stop you and give you a hard time for no reason it will be on film. Then post it on U tube and shame them into submission. I would make sure the AG had a copy of it too.

[slomove]

Well, that is nuts with and without the troopers. What is the point having such a beautiful road and then parading it in a 30 mph conga line :cuss: I suppose the traffic is just choking it and the police is finishing it off.

 

Gert

[Al N.]

As I think I've mentioned before, after the meet (we saw one rider down in the woods during our non-parade "conga" , and then I saw a guy down in the middle of the road when I took Nancy J. out for a spin on Sunday night), I truly thought "that road can be dangerous and they need to think about what to do with it".

 

It's not so much for cars that I think it's dangerous...especially not for Se7ens! It's the bikes/trikes that have it bad, I think. You mis-read something, you're basically down or in the other lane. In a car, that's sheetmetal damage...maybe even more. On a bike, that's skin and bone damage, maybe even more.

 

I'm sure many smarter people (including more than a few locals) have pondered controlling access to the road. I'd personally pay a daily use fee to make one way for part of the day or to have staggered entry (to control traffic density...which wasn't too bad Friday and Sat, but pretty bad for me on Sunday night...made worse by cruisers who wouldn't pull over to let me show Nancy what Se7ens can do). Of course, it's a public road and all...

 

It might also be good to have something like the "ski patrol" who can flag you for reckless driving/riding. Two warnings and you're banned for 3 months or whatever.

 

The road is amazing...especially in its curves per mile. It's a shame to have it turn into a 24 LEO supervised parade grounds. I'm sure I'll be back eventually.

[Kitcat]

It is totally whacked to run race speeds on public roads. When I was there I dodged a few errant bikes whose speed exceeded the rider's skill/experience.

 

The Dragon & other public roads are fine places for "spirited" drving, say 6/10th's. But if you respect the center line, you can't come close to a racing line and if you can't do that, you ain't racin. Also, the lack of run-off area makes any mistake a potential jackpot and oncoming traffic must proceed at its own risk.

 

If you are serious about speed, find a race track. You might be shocked at how slow you are at 9/10's, compared to experienced drivers in theoretically slower cars. Being relatively speedy on public roads, only because you are willing to risk your safety more than the saner drivers around you, proves nothing.

 

Rant over!

[7evin]

Wow.... I did not know we were racing on this road.....

 

I think Loren has a good point. Set the LEOs up, I hate to call them law enforcement officers

because I have seen them break more laws in a mile then most people do in a month.

 

Have everyone carry video cameras and video them in action. Post it everywhere.

 

I have personally chased them down to get their cars #s, documented their actions via affidavit

with a witness if possible and filed documentation against them.

In one instance the officer call me and graveled pleading with me to drop the case.

Another instance I had 2 of them disarmed and put behind desks for over a year.

 

Now you really have be pi#$%^ :cuss: off to go this far.... I was!

 

If you are a public SERVANT.... Then please understand who pays your check on Friday.

I always remind them when they forget.... In a nice way of course. They do have guns....

 

:_deadhorse: I have been dying to use this gif

 

Cheers

Kevin

 

 

[slngsht]

That's the only way to get cops to obey traffic laws...

 

Read this... how many other cops turned a blind eye to this until the inevitable?

Fort Lauderdale officer fired for speeding over 100 mph

By Brian Haas | South Florida Sun-Sentinel

July 26, 2007

 

A Fort Lauderdale police officer accused of vehicular homicide was fired Tuesday for regularly driving more than 100 mph both on and off duty, according to an internal investigation.

 

Officer Alexander Griss, 23, was fired for violating five departmental policies after an investigationuncovered driving speeds that reached 118 mph on interstates and Broward County roads, the report said. The firing is effective Aug. 20.

Griss is free on bond on a vehicular homicide charge in the June 19 death of Althea Tobias McKay, 39, of Lauderdale Lakes. Authorities say Griss was driving up to 91mph when his police cruiser struck her.

Griss has pleaded not guilty to the charge and the case is tentatively scheduled for trial in late August. Michael Dutko, Griss' attorney, was out of town Wednesday and could not be reached. The Fort Lauderdale Police Department had no comment on the firing.

 

The department has global positioning system devices in all of its marked police cruisers that record time, location and speed. According to the data pulled from Griss' Ford Crown Victoria in the month preceding McKay's death, he was driving over 90 mph at least 90 times on various roads while on and off duty. Included in that are 15 instances of driving faster than 110 mph, mostly on interstates. He reached 118 mph twice on Interstate 595 and 114 mph once on A1A, where the speed limit is 30 to 35 mph, those records show.

 

The department fired Griss on charges including conduct unbecoming an officer, failing to drive in a safe manner, losing his license and failing to answer investigators' questions, the internal report said. It said the officer showed "blatant disregard for the Florida State Statutes you are required to obey and sworn to enforce."

 

GPS data initially pegged Griss as driving 91 mph June 19 in the 1900 block of South Federal Highway, seconds before his cruiser struck McKay, who had stepped off the curb, police said at the time. The impact threw McKay's body 102 feet. Traffic homicide investigators separately calculated Griss was driving at least 79 mph at the time of the impact. That stretch of the road has a 40 mph speed limit.

 

The report noted that most of the speeding occurred either off-duty or during routine calls. Detective Kathy Collins, spokeswoman for the department, said it does random checks on officers' speeds through the GPS system. She declined to discuss whether the agency did so before McKay's death.

 

Dutko has called into question the GPS data and the calculations investigators used to determine Griss' speed during the accident.

 

But similar data has been used successfully in traffic cases for years and withstood challenges on appeal. In 2003, Broward County prosecutors used speed information recorded in a car's "black box" to convict Edwin Matos of manslaughter and vehicular homicide in the death of Jamie Maier, 16, of Davie, and Paige Kupperman, 17, of Miami Lakes. Matos is serving a 30-year prison sentence. McKay's father was pleased Wednesday to hear Griss had been fired.

 

"I'm very happy. This is a big relief," Renwick Tobias said. "Whatever it takes, we want to see justice done in this case. I'm glad to see that it has finally moved in the right direction." Staff Writer Brittany Wallman contributed to this report.

[7evin]

How about deputy Antross in Blount county performing 5 criminal misdemeanors in 60 seconds

 

This video is worth your investment of time... It is about the dragon and the police abuse there.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvA1XIBm4PA

 

Bikers beware video.... You won't beleave it.

 

Cheers

Kevin

[Mondo]

I'm stepping off my sportbike, and into a WCM, because my bike is insanely fast and after 5 years I still find myself going speeds that belong on the track. I've done a couple track days and loved it so my option was a dedicated track bike for trackdays (turning 50 and my racing days are behind me) or a car like this that I can actually drive to the track (2 are close by).

I intend to do some spirited driving in the foothills and the worry of coming across a patch of dirt shouldn't be as frightening as when dragging a knee (well a little exageration but close:lol: ). I think autocrossing will be fun too.

 

[WestTexasS2K]

Dont get me wrong I am all for enforcing laws on those that are breaking the law. Just like every law enforcement agency give a little cushion 5-7 mph. If you see wreckless driving then the person should be stopped and ticketed. But pulling people over just because they are riding a bike even when they are clearly going the speed limit not crossing the line. Like the video that is posted above. Then turning around and stopping the same person again and again and holding them up for 35-40 min and never giving a citiation is harrasment pure and simple.

[Keith]

I've been to the Gap a couple of times, once with a couple of friends and once for the big Miata gathering. The problem is that it's not the Nurburgring, it's a road. Sure, everbody likes to treat it like a playground but there's legitimate traffic there. We came around one corner and were face-to-face with a truck that had drifted into our lane. We were able to stop because we weren't running hard, but if we had been it would have been very ugly.

 

When I went down to the Miata meet, I saw four Miatas with sheetmetal damage by the time I'd gone through to Tapoca - including two that had met in opposite directions. Cars and bikes were pushing too hard all over the place. With this sort of behavior going on constantly, I can't really blame the locals for getting a bit fed up. We can argue what's reasonable and what isn't, but try to see the other side's viewpoint.

[Rescue Rob]

I agree with you all to a point. there are alot of LEOS out there that are just giving everyone a hard time because they dont want to pull dragon duty.

Ive seen first hand way too many times, how the motorcycles have total disrespect for that road and like to take it as fast and as wreckless as possible.

Out of all the calls ive responded to id say 90% involve a motorcycle , ( mostly the crotch rockets) and the few calls i HAVE been to up there that involved cars were usually either caused by a motorcycle , or an 18 wheeler trying to take that road as a shortcut.

 

The speed limit used to be 50 mph which meant the motorcycles drove it at 80 or 90, they dropped it to 30 mph so it has helped cut the speed down to 50 or 60

[R1 Seven]

Do you guys feel that the root of this issue is more than just speeding and accidents? All the tourism is on the NC side of the dragon, but the dragon itself is acutally in TN. Therefore, NC gets to enjoy the tourism dollars, but TN has to clean up the mess so to speak. I could see easily why TN does not want that "in their backyard".

[powderbrake]

I agree with Rescue Bob. The motorcycles seem to be the biggest offenders of crossing the Yellow line and reckless driving. The cars do some reckless driving as well, but since they are unable to make the passes that the bikes can do, by default, they are a little more responsible.

 

Keeping in mind the necessity of stayng in your lane, and operating at a speed at which you have vehicle control will prevent your causing accidents. It also helps somewhat if you are confronted with a guy in your lane.

 

At the Dragon, I tried to practice the same thing I do at home when taking a "spirited" blat on a twisty road. I pretend the road is only 1 LANE WIDE. I stay in my lane, and take the best line I can at a speed which will keep me on the road ( and hopefully stop in time if needed). I am simply simulating a much narrower "track", which actually takes a bit more car control than using both lanes.

 

I also tend to slow down at hill crests and blind turns in areas where I have not seen the road is clear ahead. That's not because I am a slow driving wussie, but because I went for a blat once on a favorite twisty road with my wife in the car, and as we were talking, I was not pushing it as hard as I would by myself. I came around the corner of a two lane country road, and there was a huge garbage truck PARKED in the MIDDLE of the road. I was able to stop, but two days before that I had come around that same corner at a speed at which there was no stopping in time. Needless to say, the mental image of my car compacted against the rear of that truck has changed my driving habits.

[Rescue Rob]

I dont agree with the thinking that the " road " is in tennessee and the "tourism" is in NC so that is why the LEOS dont like it.

Tennesse gets alot of " tourist" money IE The Honda Hoot...

I can tell you from personal experience from being up ther almost every day , that the ones abusing the speed on that road are the Motorcyclist that are perdominatly from out of state.

 

The weekend of the fatalities were people from out of state that didnt respet that road and paid for it withtheir life.

the one involving the 3wheeler was driving that and lost control going around a turn and hit a 5000 lb boat and knocked it off the trailer ripping the winch cable off the boat. it takes alot of force to rip a winch cable off a boat.

 

When i respond to calls up there im usually driving a fairly large Rescue truck and i can tell you its NOT easy to keep in one lane, especially when im trying to get there to hopefully save someones life. I personally dont like to have to drive the dragon over 30 MPH but unfortunatly when i go up there i dont have a choice... someones life could be at stake and the " golden Hour" is ticking away

 

All i ask is please be safe , and obey the speed limits , they are there for a reason

 

 

[Keith]

Thanks Rob, it's interesting hearing the perspective of someone who's intimately involved with the road every day.

 

With regards to my experience, I saw very few motorcycles when I was there. Probably because the first time was during the week, and the second time was during the Miatas at the Gap event - and I suspect that word gets out that the Dragon will be clogged with cars. Besides, we went exploring elsewhere.

 

Here's what I've always figured the problem is with the Miata event: anticipation. The Gap is almost mythical in status, and people plan their trip there a year in advance. Especially for first-timers, the first thing they'll do is go attack the road with all the pent-up excitement of that planning...and boom. Perhaps it's a different problem for the bikes as they work their way up faster and faster or they're just intoxicated by the performance of their machines. I imagine this plays out every weekend.

 

As for the actual behavior of the LEOs, that's another topic. I don't blame the police chief for wanting a highly visible presence, and I can understand how the individual officers might not want to be that presence.