Anyone read the latest Grassroots Motorsports? 7 vs Atom...

[WestTexasS2K]

I agree with Keith. Both cars are minimalist cars. Most of them only have the bare essentials needed to make them haul butt. I would personally welcome Atoms to LSIS events. They both originate in the UK and have the same basic intent. Lets face it the Atoms and LSIS communities are niche markets combining the 2 would really boost attendance.

[WestTexasS2K]

http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=11782&g2_serialNumber=1

 

Warning, beware of the yellow one with flames in the top left corner. He's just a little bit fast....

 

Brent

 

Yeah Brent, Johns car is faaaast. He was second fastest last year at RunN Gun if memory hasn't failed me again. I think he was running 1.04 range and the Viking which was the fastest ran 1.01, I ran 1.08. But we were in different classes.

 

There is also something very special about Johns car, the driver. He is a very good driver with alot of knowledge of car set up and tuning. I am looking forward to this years event to see if my extra ponies and slicks can knock a few seconds of my times.

[Kitcat]

AtomFest:

 

I am not surpised you have passed Sevens at track days. My mighty '97 Caterham 1700 cc Crossflow probably cranks out about 100 rear wheel hp. In my 2+ months of ownership I have done 4 track days. My car is faster than a stock Miata, slower than a Corvette. If the track has no straight I am faster than a Honda S2000 (barely). If it has a straight, it's over-my 105 mph top speeed takes forever to reach.

 

The car is a blast to drive. Someone explained that in most modern cars, going 100 mph feels like 60 mph and that it is just the opposite in a Seven. So true: between the noise/wind/bumpy ride/and lighteneing reflexes it's total sensory overload. But not necessarily fast.

 

Road and Track once published a letter by a guy who said the key performance parameters for him were how great the car sounded, how cool it looked, and how easily it was to contol it while sliding sideways. I think both the Seven type cars and the Atom finish that test in a dead heat.

 

I am sure an Atom will eventually beat Keith's car. But no one, including Keith, ever suggested he had the fastest Seven, just one that was "lowcost" and pretty speedy. And mostly it is irrelevant. I love the Atom, I love the Seven, I'd like to have both. If one beats the other, that doesn't diminsh my appreciation of the losing car. And if we wait long enough, maybe Keith will build a lowcost Atom for $13K and we can all have both cars!

[Maverick1]

I really don't know much about 7's, all I know is that there are many, many different manufacturers of 7 kits and complete cars to choose from, and that Caterham purchased the right to build 7's from Lotus a long time ago.

I don't want to start a fight or anything but I was wondering if there is a consensus out there among 7 owners as to which one is the better handling model/better on track performing model?

Do any of the non origional 7's (ie not Caterham) outperform the Caterham models when powered with similar powertrains? Just wondering if any other 7 manufacturer has improved the breed even more?

Cheers™

[7evin]

7evin: Looks like that Atom is a little larger in the 2nd shot. Must be gaining on you!

 

 

http://usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/1889757670_pics 125a.jpg

 

If you look a little closer you can tell I'm just zoomed into the mirror more.....

I think when we blew by him, the wake from the trailer we were towing blew his

left headlite off.... :blueangel:

 

Gotta love photo shop.

 

Hallet has a HST (High Speed Touring) series that is very inexpensive and alot of fun.

My wife and I did it in a Chrysler Crossfire we rented from budget.

http://usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/537730781_pics 024b.jpg

 

http://www.hallettracing.net/

The next HST event is 29th -30th Sept. I will not be able to attend this one because

we will be doing the FireBall Run.

Oct 27th -28th Will be the one after that.

Nov. 10th-11th will be the last one for the year.

Check out the web site and let me know what you think.

 

I am curious to what kind of speeds the atoms were hitting on the long back stretch on the full course at VIR?

Are the atoms running a 5 or 6 speed gear box?

 

Cheers

[Keith]

... I was wondering if there is a consensus out there among 7 owners as to which one is the better handling model/better on track performing model?

 

That's easy. No There is no consensus.

 

There are brand loyalties inside the Seven community. Each of the variants has their strong and weak points. The Caterhams seem to do well consistently on tests by EVO magazine, while the Westfields fall just behind. But Peter Egan tried our Westfield last week and thought it drove better than a Caterham, while Larry Webster thinks my car is easier to drive sideways than a Cat. I've been in a WCM as a passenger on track and was quite impressed with the surge of power over 100 mph when the S2000 engine got on to the fun part of the camshaft. Dax has a tendency to stuff bonkers engines in their cars, but they don't necessarily handle quite as well as some other makes, while Donkervoort has set a record at the Ring in a car that has obviously evolved somewhat from the original design. It goes on and on.

 

The Caterham R500 Evo does seem to be a bit of a high-water mark for performance from one of the more mainstream providers though.

[xromad]

 

That's easy. No There is no consensus.

 

There are brand loyalties inside the Seven community. Each of the variants has their strong and weak points. The Caterhams seem to do well consistently on tests by EVO magazine, while the Westfields fall just behind. But Peter Egan tried our Westfield last week and thought it drove better than a Caterham, while Larry Webster thinks my car is easier to drive sideways than a Cat. I've been in a WMC as a passenger on track and was quite impressed with the surge of power over 100 mph when the S2000 engine got on to the fun part of the camshaft. Dax has a tendency to stuff bonkers engines in their cars, but they don't necessarily handle quite as well as some other makes, while Donkervoort has set a record at the Ring in a car that has obviously evolved somewhat from the original design. It goes on and on.

 

The Caterham R500 Evo does seem to be a bit of a high-water mark for performance from one of the more mainstream providers though.

 

And that's just the big names :-)

 

WCM tends to use the S2k motor of which I'm sure the atom owners are quite familiar. The Stalkers use either the 3.4Litre 60deg V6 or the almost unbelieveable supercharged 3800 V6. neither of these motors has realy big horsepower numbers, but both have monster torque and a powerband with a huge "area under the curve". Then step into the Demans, the Hayabusa powered screaming meanies, rotary powered vikings, rotary powered Rotuses (Roti?), Mazda's V8 powered Rotus, the list goes on.

 

I will say this. In the last five years the 7 has exploded onto the U.S. scene. Yes it's still a niche, but compared to what it was, it's amazing. Especially fun to see the Sevens tear up the competition at R&G and other national events. Additionally, all the variations are good for improving the breed. (this is where I think the single marque clubs have it entirely wrong) I guarantee that when the different cars gather, the manufactures are looking at each other's work and saying (WOW!) or (YUCK!) and some of it bleeds over into each successive generation.

 

Personally I think Caterham enforcing their pattents and copyrights on Westfield and others has actually been good for the communitiy. It forced the other makers to evolve which then put pressure on Caterham to evolve or get left behind.

[xromad]

The LSIS was defined as a sports car with its engine behind the front wheels, but it is a real stretch to equate that with a rear engined car. Just because a car's front suspension is exposed, and it's a small, 2 seater, open car, and may or may not have fenders in frort or rear, doesn't make it a Se7en. A 32 Ford roadster would meet those criteria. I may not be able to define a Seven completely, but I know one when I see one.

 

Ah, I know you weren't speaking to me, but this description is exactly why I described the Atom as "Sevenesque" and neither called it a Seven nor an LSIS.

 

There are many cars that i would call "Sevenesque" that are neither Sevins nor LSIS but the line does become quite blurred. The Panoz Roadster comes to mind.

 

I wouldn't include the 32 Ford because I think the description is still lacking a bit. I think you need to add: designed for minimum weight, Space Frame construction, and risk of being sued by Caterham for "Look and Feel" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Brent

[slngsht]

 

Ah, I know you weren't speaking to me, but this description is exactly why I described the Atom as "Sevenesque" and neither called it a Seven nor an LSIS.

 

There are many cars that i would call "Sevenesque" that are neither Sevins nor LSIS but the line does become quite blurred. The Panoz Roadster comes to mind.

 

I wouldn't include the 32 Ford because I think the description is still lacking a bit. I think you need to add: designed for minimum weight, Space Frame construction, and risk of being sued by Caterham for "Look and Feel" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Brent

 

ding ding ding, we have a winner :lol:

[powderbrake]

 

I wouldn't include the 32 Ford because I think the description is still lacking a bit. I think you need to add: designed for minimum weight, Space Frame construction, and risk of being sued by Caterham for "Look and Feel" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Brent

 

Your points are well taken. The getting sued by Caterham is a good point of definition.

 

I wonder if the (I forget the name of the car) which is a Cobra with a lakester style front grill and cycle fenders will get sued by Caterham or Carrol Shelby? :lol:

[slngsht]

Diva roadster?

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/pw/images/diva1.jpg

[Davemk1]

A Seven is like porn........I'm not sure I can fully define it but I know it when I see it.

 

The Atom is stunning in it's own way but it's not a Seven.

 

Dave

[powderbrake]

Yes, that's it, a Diva. I saw one at Carlisle in 2003 or 04. It looked like someone had simply grafted a new nose on a Cobra.

[Al N.]

In response to AtomFest...I don't think we even know inside the community whose car has the most performance. That is something we should sort out...and I'd even say that we should get one driver (someone like Keith or John M.) to do a time attack/hillclimb sort of challenge at our next national meet. Unless we have access to an auto-X that has some wide open bits, the cars with a lot of top end won't do very well.

 

That said, even within marques (and models!), everyone's car is so different that it's tough to generalize. For example, Ed Hudson, Scott Lentz, and I all have Caterham Superlights...but we all have different motors. JBH and I have cars that are very similar, but he's running 13" and I'm running 15", so there will be a difference in our final ratios and ultimate top speeds.

[Davemk1]

In response to AtomFest...I don't think we even know inside the community whose car has the most ultimate performance. That is something we should sort out...and I'd even say that we should get one driver (someone like Keith or John M.) to do a time attack/hillclimb sort of challenge at our next national meet. Unless we have access to an auto-X that has some wide open bits, the cars with a lot of top end do very well.

 

That said, even within marques (and models!), everyone's car is so different that it's tough to generalize. For example, Ed Hudson, Scott Lentz, and I all have Caterham Superlights...but we all have different motors. JBH and I have cars that are very similar, but he's running 13" and I'm running 15", so there will be a difference in our final ratios and ultimate top speeds.

 

My car is the fastest car on the planet.....bar none.

 

End of discussion.

 

Dave

[drew...]

Good answer Dave!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Al N.]

My car maybe the fastest, but it's owner certainly isn't!:jester:

 

I have seen some very fast Se7ens on the road over the past two years...Mazda's car and a Stalker driven by Paul W stick out as two of the quicker car/driver combos I've tried to keep up with. And Scott L. certainly isn't slow. And from what the PNW 2007 folks say, Ed Hudson's car is no slouch...

 

Like I said, it would be fun to have a hillclimb/time attack at the next national.

[Maverick1]

For those of you with the WCM Sevens with the Honda S2000 motors, have any of you thought about forced induction of that engine? I have read that many S2000 owners have supercharged their Honda's and have gained lots of HP. Comptech and Vortech I believe makes one for the S2000's and they clain a 100hp increase. WOW

Just curious if it might be possible in the WCM ultralites. I guess room in the engine bay is probably one deciding factor.

cheers

[Kitcat]

Didn't West Texas go the supercharger route, with the result that his Ultralight was transformed: into an Ultra-unreliable:)?

[Keith]

Comtech is no longer an option, unfortunately. We're putting a turbo on the Westfield right now though...