BDR sump solutions

[inchoate]

I've got a '87-88 Caterham with a 1700 BDR motor.  The factory BDR cars all seem to have come with a dry sump oil system but mine was delivered to the states as a kit and is wet sump.  I'm getting a little bit tired of banging my oil pan on the pavement and occasionally having the drain plug stop sealing and dumping all of the oil onto the garage floor.  I'm going to pull the engine in the fairly near future to take care of some other stuff in the engine bay so now's the time to address the issue.

 

Should I just straighten out the oil pan, accept that it's one of the fun things about owning a caterham and get on with my life, or should I try to figure out a dry sump system to gain a little more ground clearance?  If anyone's got ideas I'm all ears.

[coffee break]

I also have pondered going dry sump on my 1600 xflow, what is the ball park $$$ involved.

[inchoate]

16 minutes ago, coffee break said:

I also have pondered going dry sump on my 1600 xflow, what is the ball park $$$ involved.

couldn't tell you.

 

not to many BD resources in the states but looking over the Burton Power website I'd think I'd plan for $2kish to do my car.  xflow is the same block so probably the same parts.  if you start digging please share.

[MV8]

Dry sump is a big step for a little clearance. Your wet sump pan can be altered. I expect it is steel versus aluminum.

The drain does not have to be on the bottom and the pan depth can be reduced without loss of capacity by widening or use of a higher capacity filter. An increase in ride height may be worth the effort. A local shop could mod the pan or you could mail it to a company that specializes in oil pans and pickups. Moving a drain should not cost much or require pickup mods.

[7Westfield]

If you go with new parts for dry sump, budget more like $2500. 

I did my pre-lit Westfield this winter, but I had used parts on hand, basically all expense was for hoses and fittings.

You will only gain an inch or so clearance, because the bottom of the bellhousing still hangs down there, but the filter moves as well.

[inchoate]

29 minutes ago, 7Westfield said:

2 hours ago, MV8 said:

Dry sump is a big step for a little clearance. Your wet sump pan can be altered. I expect it is steel versus aluminum.

The drain does not have to be on the bottom and the pan depth can be reduced without loss of capacity by widening or use of a higher capacity filter. An increase in ride height may be worth the effort. A local shop could mod the pan or you could mail it to a company that specializes in oil pans and pickups. Moving a drain should not cost much or require pickup mods.

The pan is steel and my buddy who's a really good welder is saying that modifying the pan is the way to go. I'm also pretty sure I've got another pan somewhere in my garage, so there's a backup if things go pear shaped. I might go out and check the suspension height before I pull the motor and see what I can get in the way of more ride height.  Easy is always nice.

 

29 minutes ago, 7Westfield said:

If you go with new parts for dry sump, budget more like $2500. 

I did my pre-lit Westfield this winter, but I had used parts on hand, basically all expense was for hoses and fittings.

You will only gain an inch or so clearance, because the bottom of the bellhousing still hangs down there, but the filter moves as well.

Yeah, not my first rodeo so I have a sense of how these sort of projects tend to get out of hand financially.  I'd really like to find a complete kit from somewhere so I can get a better sense of the numbers.  I also wouldn't mind having someone knowledgeable on the other end as I'd really rather not blow up my motor, kind of hard to find another one. 

[IamScotticus]

On 4/10/2022 at 8:24 PM, inchoate said:

couldn't tell you.

 

not to many BD resources in the states but looking over the Burton Power website I'd think I'd plan for $2kish to do my car.  xflow is the same block so probably the same parts.  if you start digging please share.

Burton???

Pegasus and Dave Bean!

 

What pan do you have?

I have a "wedge" from Caterham.  its even with the bellhousing bottom. 

Ive managed to hit it, drop the car on it going over a curb, etc.

I have ruled out a dry sump unless its necessary because I'd rather be hitting the pan before hitting the bellhousing.

Update: I have since changed my mind and am piecing a DS together as cheap as I can.  Why?  reduce foaming, improve cooling and aeration.  All to feed the engine better oil.

 

Edited September 27, 2022 by IamScotticus

[MV8]

You might consider welding a flat strip of low carbon/common 1/8 steel across the bottom of the lowest point as a wear strip/reinforcement.

[inchoate]

On 4/11/2022 at 7:31 PM, IamScotticus said:

Burton???

Pegasus and Dave Bean!

 

What pan do you have?

I have a "wedge" from Caterham.  its even with the bellhousing bottom. 

Ive managed to hit it, drop the car on it going over a curb, etc.

I have ruled out a dry sump unless its necessary because I'd rather be hitting the pan before hitting the bellhousing.

 

 

I thought about giving Pegasus a call, I've done business with them before and they seem to be pretty reasonable folks.

 

I'm not familiar with Dave Bean.

[IamScotticus]

Dave Bean has been in the Lotus game for a long time.  

Dave has left us, but Ken is a true Loti guru.  

http://davebean.com/

Edited April 14, 2022 by IamScotticus

[inchoate]

12 hours ago, IamScotticus said:

Dave Bean has been in the Lotus game for a long time.  

Dave has left us, but Ken is a true Loti guru.  

http://davebean.com/

 

Thanks!

 

Not sure California is any better than England logistically, but 3 hours behind is easier than 5 hours ahead in a lot of ways.

 

The brits are suggesting I contact Wilcox.  I guess I'll make a few calls and see what various people have to say.

Edited April 14, 2022 by inchoate

[inchoate]

OK, so this project is starting to move along but as with everything with this car there are some bumps in the road.  I know that on the RHD BDR powered cars the dry sump oil tank sits on the exhaust side of the motor but I'm thinking that may not work for my LHD car.  Where do you guys like to put your oil tanks?  I'm thinking in front of the passenger's footwell but I'm at work so I can't look at it right now.

[7Westfield]

with a "regular" crossflow, I got mine behind the carbs

--pre lit westfield  LHD

[IamScotticus]

in a cylindrical tank with a tangent inflow, would the direction of tank inflow matter?

Assuming the user in in the northern hemisphere.

Or is ingress flow not an issue in this application?

[MV8]

I doubt it. The purpose of the spin is to de-aerate as it collects and to prevent oil dropping from any height to minimize splashing that would aerate the oil further. Scavenge pumps pickup air and oil. A baffle near the pickup helps so the oil that just fell is not directly/immediately picked up. Chamfering any internal sharp edges/corners from fittings or the intersection of drilled passages helps too.

[inchoate]

My dry sump conversion is moving along "nicely", which is to say that I have all the pieces but fitting everything together in the space provided is an ongoing challenge.  The big obstacle at the moment is that the Titan dry sump oil pan is fouling the original lower bellhousing cover.  The current plan is to fab up a new one but before I get started I just thought I'd ask if a lower bellhousing cover that will clear a Titan pan is available somewhere. 

[IamScotticus]

is this something a cutter can fix? ate you not wanting to alter the original plate?

Shopped Burton and Pegasus?

[inchoate]

 

The black line is where the front of the bellhousing lands.  Because the pan is cast it sits about 3/16" further back than the pan that came with the car.  

 

I've looked around but I can't find anything.  It's sort of interesting because a BD motor with a T9 gearbox and a Titan dry sump can't be all that uncommon.  As much as I'd prefer an off the shelf solution I'm pretty resigned to making one.  In theory I could modify what I have but in this situation it's easier to start from scratch.  I've got a friend who's a pretty good metal shaper so I might enlist his help and make something actually nice.  No end of fun working on 7s.

[MV8]

Another option would be to pull a fiberglass mold from the steel dust cover, then layup a carbon fiber replacement and notch it. Add some washers and blue loctite or safetywire. Is it also sandwiched by the starter to the bell?

[inchoate]

yeah, the starter mounts to the bellhousing and retains the plate.  The plate is only there to keep the larger rocks out of the bellhousing.  

 

making something out of CF would be very trick but I've got a piece of steel lying around and it'll be way cheaper and easier just to make something up and then beat on it until it fits.  The car's been on blocks since early june and I'm getting itchy to get it back on the road.