A US Club?

[BirkinBernie]

Hi all,

My first post here.  As background, I own a Birkin I built from the very basic kit.  I also chair the Annual Southwest Se7ens Festival, and am "owner" of the birkinowners Yahoo group.

One of the things essential to the Se7ens Festival is it all inclusive nature.  One of you used the term earlier; the event is brand agnostic.  This year we had Caterhams, Birkins, Locosts, Ultralites and a Stalker in attendance.  I simply have no interest in belonging to a club that doesn't whole-heartedly embrace this kind of inclusive behaviour.  I have no problem with people that feel that the club should discriminate - that is their right.  I just don't care to support a club like that.  And that is the way the British Lotus 7 club is.

If it walks like a Se7en and talks like a Se7en, it's a Se7en.  The wonderful group of Brits on the Tour last year felt that way and we had a blast.  I've always been amazed at how a common interest in a type of car can make you feel like the long time friend of someone you have just met.

I have wanted to see a national Se7ens organization for a while now.  And affiliating with an existing group would be a good way to start, for a couple of reasons.  One of the primary benefits of having a national club is insurance.  The club has a chance to get big enough to afford some kind of liability insurance.  I am always a little nervous about the Se7ens Festival from a liability standpoint.  That is why I have been holding the event in conjunction with a NASA race weekend.  At least they have insurance and my personal exposure is somewhat limited.  Affiliating with a club in England would do us no good from this standpoint.  IMHO, this reason alone is enough to reject the idea. Perhaps some kind of affilitation with Lotus Ltd would be possible.  I intend to talk to some folks about that at LOG this year (10 miles from home!).  Failing that, I'm not sure how to crack this nut.  What are those of you organizing the 7-7-7 meet next year doing about liability?  Being responsible for an event held on public roads would make me very nervous indeed without some kind of liability insurance......

As for the mailing list issue, I think that the individual lists like birkinowners have their place.  There is enough traffic specific to Birkins that someone who owns a Westfield might not be interested.   Not to say that they aren't welcome on the list - we have Ultralite, Caterham, Locost etc owners and they make major contributions.

Anyhoo, just my $.02 - sorry it got a bit long.  I'm going to look at trailers tomorrow - I really want to meet all of you on the 7th day of the 7th month next year!

Best regards, and Happy Se7ening!

Bernie Long

Keller, TX

[slngsht]

Bernie, thanks for the post, and glad the registration issues are resolved.

 

 

 

To summarize, I think EVERYONE agrees that:

 

 

 

1- All Sevens are welcome in this club

 

2- All club events will be inclusive

 

 

 

The above points have been the basis of conversations Al and I had from the start, and I will make sure those are not forgotten (particularly since I have a Rotus smileys/smiley36.gif[/img] ).</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Now, to the other points you raised... You are right, the UK Club's liability insurance will not cover us. Al and I are working on this issue.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> In terms of supporting all the various brands (something xflow raised as well), this forum was originally setup with Tech sections for all the major players. But since there were only 20 members at the time, I deleted the sections. I will happily add them back to accomodate the members.</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[Al N.]

Bernie...so glad you chimed in. I caught the GREAT write-up in Kit Car of your event. Very cool. And totally in the spirit of what we're trying to do with 7-7-7 at Tail of the Dragon. I think quite a few trailer purchases will be made between now and next July. I am leaning toward an Aluma (although the Trailex is nice too).

 

 

 

Do what you can to get Keith Tanner down to the Dragon...I think the Locosts should be represented, and he seems to be the dean of that particular school.

 

 

[Al N.]

I wanted to air a few thoughts regarding a US club.

 

 

 

I agree that both membership and events will be 1000% INCLUSIVE. We'll let the individual event planners and or regional/local sub-chapters decide on classes for shows and other events (auto-x?). But everyone is welcome.

 

 

 

While Mazda and I are sorting out the insurance bit, I will say that I would like to align with the British Club. For two reasons — from what I know, they are well funded and even try to chip in for regional events (according to what I read in Low Flying). Additionally, I think Low Flying is a pretty great little publication. I could see a regular "Across the Pond" column.

 

 

 

I would recommend aligning with IK, but paying a reduced fee to cover only membership (for overhead, membership card, etc.), and LF subscription (including postage)...NOT paying anything towards UK insurance but rather using whatever that portion is to offset the cost of US insurance (or just handling the insurance on an as needed basis).

 

 

 

Also, I think it would make sense to have regional coordinators (as divided up here at USA7s.com) in addition to one main contact to serve as liason to the UK. It's clear to me that the California folks can and do get together, and of course, us "Skyline Seveners" out east.

 

 

 

We'd use this great resource Mazda has built for us as our version of "Blat Chat", but also have privileges over there.

[spindr]

Have you all seen this site?

 

http://www.radiose7en.com/

 

Seems to do a good job of separating out the various 7 manufacturers.

 

 

 

Jeremy

[JohnCh]

While Mazda and I are sorting out the insurance bit, I will say that I would like to align with the British Club.

 

For two reasons — from what I know, they are well funded and even try to chip in for regional events (according to what I read in Low Flying). Additionally, I think Low Flying is a pretty great little publication. I could see a regular "Across the Pond" column. I would recommend aligning with IK, but paying a reduced fee to cover only membership (for overhead, membership card, etc.), and LF subscription (including postage)...

 

 

 

I would love to belong to a US se7ens club and am happy to get involved to make it happen, but I don't want to join the US Caterham club -- and regardless of the name, L7GB  *is* the Caterham club.  Although LF is a very nice little publication, the ads and articles are almost exclusively about Caterhams with the occasional nod to the Lotus 7.  There is no mention of other se7en makes, and I can't believe the editors will change that policy for us.  I hate to think that a significant portion of my dues will go towards a publication that targets only a segment of the US membership.

 

 

 

I believe we need to take a closer look at our objective.  If it is to take the simplest path to having a club, then I agree that aligning with L7GB or WSCC, or some other club has merit.  However, if the goal of the club is to bring all US se7en owners together and to spread the word on these great little cars -- regardless of manufacturer -- then I think we should start something ourselves.  Thanks to Mazda, we already have the forum.  We can do an e-newsletter while getting started, and we can help people in various regions to hook up.  Over time we can sort out the liability issues and begin to officially coordinate/sponsor events.  But it would be *our* club.  Given the state of the US se7ens market, some of the US distributors/manufacturers of the various makes may even be open to sponsorship opportunities.  If we are the US arm of L7GB, I can guarantee that isn't going to happen http://www.usa7s.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif

 

 

 

-John

JohnCh2006-08-07 06:59:36

[Al N.]

Great points John.

 

 

 

With everything else going on in my life (777 not the least), I am inclined to err on the side of simplicity.

 

 

 

But if you and others have the time and energy to take up the banner this year, I would support that too. As I mentioned to Mazda in a phone call this weekend, I don't have teh time to generate a newsletter this year, and would like to stay away from teh money side of things too.

 

 

 

Perhaps a summit meeting on this in the Fall or Winter? It would be great to be able to make 7-7-7 the "official" kickoff for it.

 

 

 

 

[slngsht]

One more update for today. I called around for club insurance, and the rates are in the $250 - $300 a year range, so they are very reasonable.

 

 

 

On the subject of expenses, my preference is to keep them as low as possible - hopefully around $1000 per year or less, including website operations, etc... I would like to raise that money through one or two events during the year, and if possible, avoid membership fees.

 

 

 

Books would be open to all the members, probably posted on a special web page accessible by members on this site.

 

 

[Al N.]

Soliciting more input...

 

 

 

A few of us had a call this AM regarding the national club (I'm assuming now that we're going to make it happen).

 

 

 

It was felt that a truly independent, brand agnostic US club would probably be the best option, with no dues initially (only event fees, if at all), and an online newsletter (to elimintate printing and mailing costs).

 

 

 

Affiliation with the L7C of the UK would be not be adjunct, but rather parallel, with a member of the USA club serving as liason to L7C UK. Similar affiliations would be forged with the Westfield club, etc.

 

 

 

Many details to sort out still (like a name?, can we use "7" or "Seven" in any form, etc.), but some good direction and input.

 

 

 

Would love to hear from more people as well as drum up more forum activity here. I think Mazda's built a great resource for us all and we should all take advantage of it as much as possible.

 

 

 

People interested in being regional reps for this fledgling Seven club please step up.

 

 

[slngsht]

To add to Al's post above:

 

 

 

1- I have gotten a club insurance quote.

 

 

 

2- I'm looking into what it takes to form the club organization. If any of you have experience with setting up a small independent club, please PM or email me.

 

 

 

I'm pretty excited about the momentum here, and I'm actively working on additional enhancements to the site to make it better.

 

 

 

Al has helped greatly with some graphic and editorial work on the 7-7-7 registration page already, and has offered up some assistance on banner and home page designs http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/hurray.gif

 

 

 

 

[Al N.]

Jeremy....I finally heard back from teh L7C UK.   Let's just say that there are more people signed up for 7-7-7 than there are US members of L7C.

 

 

 

 

[Al N.]

Also, I think we're fine using 7 in the club name (from a legal POV), especially since we're decidedly not-for-profit.

 

 

 

Yes, I have spoken with the UK factory.

[slngsht]

Are there any accountants here? We need some professional advice with setting up the club.

 

 

 

I have one, but would prefer a volunteer to keep club costs down. Email me off the list.

[Al N.]

A lawyer would be good too. To look over the various sundry docs.

[slngsht]

I contacted The Company Corporation, which I had used 7 years ago to serve as my agent in DE for my LLC.

 

 

 

They recommended we form in one of the states where one of the members live. I gave them a choice among NY, NJ, MO, and MD.

 

 

 

NY: She laughed - she said it's a nightmare

 

NJ: She said they require alot of info

 

MO: Requires signatures from 3 officers (same as NJ)

 

MD: No special requirements.

 

 

 

The charge $640 for doing all the paperwork for incorporation, basic by-laws, which we'll have to review and modify, which includes the state fees ($240).

 

 

 

I'm not tied to them, but had a good experience with them last.

 

 

 

Next, I'll look through the IRS site and MD's site and see what's involved. I suspect it's not a whole lot of work, and since I already have a residence here, we don't need a proxy, so we can save $400 and do it directly.

[Al N.]

Mazda-

 

 

 

Count me in to split the fees. Perhaps we solicit a "founders board" where a few folks chip in to minimize the out of pocket for any one individual. I'm good on MD inc.

 

 

 

-Al

[snettleship]

I would certainly contribute to the cause.  I also live in NC if that makes for a better legal situation....

[Old Yellow]

Don't forget if you want to be a "non Profit" in the eyes of the Feds and want a IRS ID number it's another $500 to get the 501c7 exemption but you can skip that if you dont get too big. You only need to file a tax return if you take in over $25k.

 

 

 

I filed it a couple of years ago on our 30 year old auto-x car club as they had the state exemption/incorporation but not the federal and I found it out when I took over the lifetime treasurers job. We do take in over 25k a year si I file a tax return.

[slngsht]

Thanks Joe. I have to look into the additional $500.

 

 

 

Are you going to drag out old yellow to the tail of the dragon next year? We'll be holding an autox as well. How far is that from you?

[Old Yellow]

I don't drive it on the street so I won't be there. It's strictly a auto-x car. It's also not comfortable for a 6'3" driver. I have to keep my foot on the clutch pedal all the time.