school me on slicks...

[slngsht]

I *might* get a 2nd set of wheels for Frankn7. They will be the same wheels as my current setup, 17"X9.5" front, 18"X10.5" back. I can't go to smaller than 17" fronts due to size of disc and caliper.

 

I will replace my current set with RA1 or 888 for road use.

 

If I buy a 2nd set, what should I put on them?

 

I plan on running autocrosses, and a couple of track days. Obviously I need something that is really soft and builds heat quickly. Am I better off with slicks for autox, then run RA1s for the track and the street, or slicks for autox and track, and run RA1s on the street?

 

What compounds should I be looking at for either autox or track use?

 

looking at popular tires for vettes probably won't help me much b/c i'm 1400 lbs lighter.

[yellowss7]

Mazda, as far as Hoosier slicks go, the rating system goes from R25 (softest) to R 75 (hardest). Obviously, the softer compound is better for autox with our lighter cars, but probably not so for track days. Compromise to R35??

 

Don't know how the weight of your car will affect the compound choice. Maybe you can buy a set of used slicks for the track days. I understand that you can pick up some good usable tires from race teams, at a reasonable price.

 

Or you could look at the Hoosier R6-A6 Dot tires. R being track, A=autox

 

Looking forward to seeing your beast run. Tom

[slngsht]

I also have the option of going with a regular C5 wheel, which is 1" narrower and 2 lbs lighter (plus the matching tire weight savings)...

[Boxologist]

r888s should be in a better of supply sizes by mid next year. the larger diameter sizes came out first. i'd have to check if tehy are out in ur size. i am hearing experiences all over the place with these, all good, but from the ultra positive that these are a tic below the A6/v710 to they are slighly better than the RA-1.

 

since Frankn7 will never be out in the rain, running old stock of RA-1s that will hopefully be on a nice discount would be great. otherwise consider the RE-01R which will give a chance if u get cought in the wet. i hear toyo has new one out for ultra street performance alled the RA-R.

 

consider the hankook z214 as compettion tyre. c50/51 is the medium which should cover u. the bfgoodrich r1 got a nice writeup in GRM i think, though they beleived the kook would be better ona lighter car(tested on a subaru, they beleive it better on a miata).

 

i personally am considering the R888 and the z214 as tyres for my original set of wheels when i wear out the allseason this fall/next spring.

 

The re-01r may again fall under a rebate like there was this spring/summer.

 

edit: re-01r isnt wide enough yet.

 

 

[slngsht]

Jon, so how much of a difference is there between an RA1 and a hankook, which I assume is a slick?

Is the difference as big as going from an all season radial to an R compound?

[Davemk1]

If I'm not mistaken we are speaking about two different types of slicks here. DOT slicks (like thee Hoosier A6) and true road racing non-DOT slicks.

 

If you need to drive to the event on the tires you are going to race on there is only one choice from where I stand and that's the Hoosier A6. If you are driving to the event on street tires and the race tires will be put on at the event then Hoosier road race slicks can not be beat. I've used Goodyear, Michelin and Hoosier and the Hoosier are in another class altogether.

 

You can think of it this way........with each bump up in tire you are going to see about 2 seconds of difference on a one minute course. So with high performance street tires you might get a 60 seconds flat. Move to DOT R compounds and you'll be in the 58 second range. Move from there to Non-DOT race tires and you'll be able to get into the 56's.

 

The big difference between an R compound DOT tire and a real race tire is weight and suppleness. A true race tire will weigh much, much less than any DOT tire. They don't have to pass the same (or any) tests to pass the DOT deal so they have a very thin carcass. This makes them light but also allows them to contour to the surface much better resulting in much higher traction.

 

All that BS said................most true road race slicks don't come in a 17" size. Most are in the 13", 15" or 16" sizes only. If this is the case then you are getting road tires. I could be wrong on this.

 

In the end it's much faster on real race tires. They are so good that you need to reset your "what's possible meter".

 

Dave

[WestTexasS2K]

true slicks are great but keep in mind that they come in radial and bias ply. Bias ply tires like to be run with little to no camber but a radial will be good with camber. Hoosier R6 and A6 are radials and have been king of the hill for a good while but the BFGoodrich R1 won the Grassroots motorsports shootout and Tire Rack evaluation. Both said it turned faster lap times than the Hoosier and appeared to wear slower. I just bought the BF Goodrich I will let you know how they perform after R&G, they just came in today.

 

I was also told by a tire engineer that was running in 1 lap that most companies are now focusing radial tire development instead of bias ply becuase the potential for better performance existed with the radial.

[slngsht]

If I'm not mistaken we are speaking about two different types of slicks here. DOT slicks (like thee Hoosier A6) and true road racing non-DOT slicks.

 

If you need to drive to the event on the tires you are going to race on there is only one choice from where I stand and that's the Hoosier A6. If you are driving to the event on street tires and the race tires will be put on at the event then Hoosier road race slicks can not be beat. I've used Goodyear, Michelin and Hoosier and the Hoosier are in another class altogether.

 

You can think of it this way........with each bump up in tire you are going to see about 2 seconds of difference on a one minute course. So with high performance street tires you might get a 60 seconds flat. Move to DOT R compounds and you'll be in the 58 second range. Move from there to Non-DOT race tires and you'll be able to get into the 56's.

 

The big difference between an R compound DOT tire and a real race tire is weight and suppleness. A true race tire will weigh much, much less than any DOT tire. They don't have to pass the same (or any) tests to pass the DOT deal so they have a very thin carcass. This makes them light but also allows them to contour to the surface much better resulting in much higher traction.

 

All that BS said................most true road race slicks don't come in a 17" size. Most are in the 13", 15" or 16" sizes only. If this is the case then you are getting road tires. I could be wrong on this.

 

In the end it's much faster on real race tires. They are so good that you need to reset your "what's possible meter".

 

Dave

 

That's what I was looking for, and yes, I'm considering buying a 2nd set of wheels for exactly that purpose (dedicated track).

As for real race tires not being available in 17" and 18" sizes, there are ALOT of vettes and vipers used for dedicated track cars. Surely they don't all run on DOT tires. Thanks for the input.

[slngsht]

true slicks are great but keep in mind that they come in radial and bias ply. Bias ply tires like to be run with little to no camber but a radial will be good with camber. Hoosier R6 and A6 are radials and have been king of the hill for a good while but the BFGoodrich R1 won the Grassroots motorsports shootout and Tire Rack evaluation. Both said it turned faster lap times than the Hoosier and appeared to wear slower. I just bought the BF Goodrich I will let you know how they perform after R&G, they just came in today.

 

I was also told by a tire engineer that was running in 1 lap that most companies are now focusing radial tire development instead of bias ply becuase the potential for better performance existed with the radial.

 

I run just under 1 degree static camber right now. Believe it or not, I was actually running zero camber at the 7/7/7 autox because I had raised the ride height 1.5" to get the car on and off the trailer, and forgot to reset the ride height. :crazy:

 

When you say "little", does 1 degree qualify?

[slngsht]

hmmm... just looked at GY G19 prices... looks like a set for my sizes will run about 2 grand :willy: Maybe I'll stick to the slower RA1's

[SR27.Seth]

I'm sorry Mr. Moderator- but is there not a Wheels and Tires section to this forum?

[slngsht]

I'm sorry Mr. Moderator- but is there not a Wheels and Tires section to this forum?

 

Oh crap, there is :crazy:

 

Off she goes

[Boxologist]

i'll get more info up tomorrow night. car meet in a few minutes.

 

glad this go moved to T & W. i was gonna suggest we start a thread here. greta to knwo teh admin, eh Mazda!

 

hankook factory page, some info on their compounds

current model, z214

http://www.tiredealersites.com/assets/sitecontent/tireselector/images/Hankook/Ventus%20Z214_1.jpg

being phased out z211

http://www.tiredealersites.com/assets/sitecontent/tireselector/images/Hankook/VentusZ211.jpg

Hoosier

R6 or A6

http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/hoosier/ho_a6_ci2_l.jpg

Kumho factory site

http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/kumho/ku_ecsta_v710_ci2_l.jpg

 

Avon

CR500

Tech RA

http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/avon/avon_tech_ra_ci2_l.jpg

Toyo

RA-1

RA-R

R888

 

some info on bigger r888 releases over the winter

[Davemk1]

 

That's what I was looking for, and yes, I'm considering buying a 2nd set of wheels for exactly that purpose (dedicated track).

As for real race tires not being available in 17" and 18" sizes, there are ALOT of vettes and vipers used for dedicated track cars. Surely they don't all run on DOT tires. Thanks for the input.

 

Glad to help a bit. You're right those guys with the big wheels are using something. If you have a choice find the lightest tire you can. Not only for the weight but for the flexibility. Most of those tires are meant to carry a car twice the weight of a Seven and can be too stiff in the sidewall.

 

About camber and bias ply tires.........I agree in a big way. I'm running 1/4* camber and it works very well.

 

Dave

[stevet]

Box, if you find a deal on the smaller R888's (I'm on 14" wheels), please let me know. A lot of the UK folks have switched to these and seem pretty happy, plus it's a 'relatively' cheap tire over there...

 

 

[WestTexasS2K]

I really think you should give these a look. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/TireTestServlet?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=g-Force+R1&tirePageLocQty= They are available in alot of sizes.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Sizes.jsp?make=BFGoodrich&model=g-Force+R1

 

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=g-Force+R1

[WestTexasS2K]

 

I run just under 1 degree static camber right now. Believe it or not, I was actually running zero camber at the 7/7/7 autox because I had raised the ride height 1.5" to get the car on and off the trailer, and forgot to reset the ride height. :crazy:

 

When you say "little", does 1 degree qualify?

 

I would consider 1 degree camber. I run the same thing. The radial will run from .5 and up. If you run a bias ply tire like the Hoosier 25-75 series they prefere a 0-.2 degree. from the research I have done plus all the racers I have talked to have told me this along with several companies that sell just race tires of many brands.