Al N. Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 I was searching around YouTube today and found a clip of footage from the "CCC PNW 2007" Tour (thanks for your support there, video poster who shall go unnamed :cry:) And I think the Club and forum (you can join the forum without joining the club, of course, but what fun is that?) needs to have a guideline or formal policy on videos and posts that show or mention extra-legal speeds — whether or not the driving happens in Germany or not. In this particular video, it's fairly easy to see on the speedo that the driver is more than doubling the double nickel on a public road. And by posting the video, he is exposing himself (and the Tour organizer/s...which I guess are the CCC :jester:) to jonny law. There is precedent for legal action being taken based on a YouTube vid. So, until there is a formal policy issued, I think we should all police ourselves for vids and posts that contain mention of extra-legal speeds or conduct. It's just smart foruming and CYAing... [/Al gets off soapbox] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7evin Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 Not a bad idea, Nothing worst than witnessing against yourself. Although I think if you don't have video or pictures of the Speedo, radar gun readout or something stupid like that. It would be mighty hard to prove in a court of law. There are several elements that they need to prosecute that would not be available unless you gave it to them. You could always claim you were full of BS and that you sped the video up to make it look faster than it was. Regardless it is still a good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slngsht Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 Here is my take on it. Unless the video is either posted here, or specifically mentions the site/club (or the name of the event tied to the site/club) during the video or in the text description, it becomes simply the actions of one person driving down the road. There is really nothing the club can do to prevent such an action anyway. So, if you feel inclind to point the vid at your speedo, feel free to do so, without naming the club, the event, or posting it here. This isn't a policy yet, but my feeling on the subject. We should discuss this topic here, come up with a policy, and try to enforce it - I can deal with what's posted on the site, but the best we can do is ask for cooperation of members regarding posting elsewhere. I just saw the vid in question... I think that's Km/hr :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 I just saw the vid in question... I think that's Km/hr :lol: I just watched it too, and Mazda is correct. That is a Canadian car and the speedo is in km/hr. BTW if that is the stretch of road I think it is, then he is barely travelling above the posted limit and is slower than the flow of traffic. It was too freaking cold through there to drive fast! -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R1 Seven Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 Since my car is not street legal. All my videos are made on a closed course, and are titled as to the location. You will never catch me making "canyon run" videos. Those are boring anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al N. Posted September 25, 2007 Author Share Posted September 25, 2007 I just watched it too, and Mazda is correct. That is a Canadian car and the speedo is in km/hr. -John Even if it is in KM, I still think it's a good thing to police ourselves for (here or on YouTube)...believe me, I've edited a few of my past posts to protect the guilty...including myself. And of course, my camera is mounted with a view of the road, not the speedo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxologist Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 I just saw the vid in question... I think that's Km/hr :lol: with the dollar collasping i think even the km/hr is almost a 1:1 basis:crazy: :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slomove Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 Phew, first I thought you were talking about my video.....but I am certain the speedo is not in view. Not that it matters, because I always obey the law. The one and only time I exceeded the limit oh so slightly I was made aware of my infraction by the Washington State police and did not do it again. :nonod: I guess. But I think I still need to work on my lane holding or video editing skills.... Gert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinnyG Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 That's my video. I posted it. If you want me to take it down, I will, but please tell me what it is specifically that is offensive (ie: develop your policy). The stretch of road was on the "Coquihalla" Highway 97 between Kelowna BC and Merritt BC. The posted speed limit is 110km/h (68mp/h). We were doing about 120km/h (75mp/h) which is a reasonable speed on that highway. I also made it clear with the group when they came to visit, that I'd love to travel with them, but I WILL NOT speed (more than the accepted 10% (I know, kind of hypocritical)), and that if they all wanted to speed, I was going home. I think I held a few people back because of this. The speed here in Canada is in KM/H not MPH. G (And if your your seven can maintain 120mph at 4000rpm, I'd be very impressed!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinnyG Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 I removed some "names" in the description to make Al Navarro happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slngsht Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 (And if your your seven can maintain 120mph at 4000rpm, I'd be very impressed!) [elvis voice]Thank you, Thank you very much[/elvis voice] If you want me to take it down, I will, but please tell me what it is specifically that is offensive I think the initial misunderstanding was that the vid was showing MPH, not KPH. I didn't find anything offensive. Again, there is no existing policy - something being discussed here. I think excessive speeds (i.e. multiples of speed limit, not 10 MPH over), street racing, and similar behavior should not be associated with the site or club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al N. Posted September 26, 2007 Author Share Posted September 26, 2007 (And if your your seven can maintain 120mph at 4000rpm, I'd be very impressed!) I think Mazda's car can do that in 6th.... Yes, I did think your speedo was in mph....hence my reaction and subsequent posting here. It's not that I found anything about the video "offensive", and you are free to do whatever you want on You Tube, of course. The only part that I had some issue with was showing the speedo and the speed shown (yes, I know now it was in kph) and yes, as one of the officers of USA7s.org, I felt some slight that you captioned it "CCC". I'm over it. Again, regardless of the actual speeds you were traveling and whether they were legal or not, my point is that we should all be careful about writing about or showing videos that indicate extra-legal driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinnyG Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 The only part that I had some issue with was showing the speedo and the speed shown If the speedometer had said 60mph and it was a 55mph zone, would you have had concern that the speedometer was shown? as one of the officers of USA7s.org, I felt some slight that you captioned it "CCC". My understanding was it was a CCC event. Was it a USA7s event? Would it be better to caption it USA7s, or leave it unidentified? I would liek to be as correct as possible. I have currently removed all identifiers. my point is that we should all be careful about writing about or showing videos that indicate extra-legal driving. I couldn't agree more. People who write about or show videos that indicate extra-legal driving are morons and a menace to society. I'm trying not to come across horribly defensive - in the video I'm not doing anything illegal, and I've been burned badly in the past by people taking things out of context and/or misunderstanding issues. G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al N. Posted September 26, 2007 Author Share Posted September 26, 2007 I wouldn't care about 60 in a 55, though I would still advise against showing any speedo in any vid that isn't a trackday or hillclimb....because how is the viewer to know the limit for the stretch of road you are driving. Regarding the CCC or USA7s.org thing...although primarily organized and attended by the CCC folks, Gert connected with USA7s to help with umbrella insurance and some admin. There was even a short-lived discussion to merge the two clubs a while back. As I've said, I'm over it...so feel free to caption anyway you want. I don't think you're coming off as defensive at all. I hope that I didn't come off as too accusatory. I sent you a PM to explain some back story that makes me particularly keyed into this sort of thing. Alls well that ends well. Hope to meet you at the next national (2009?), where I can guarantee there will be NO extra-legal speeds. In Germany.:jester: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slngsht Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 OK... hopefully by now the whole KPH vs MPH thing has cleared up the initial misunderstanding. So, on to issues regarding the policy. Al, I agree with the need for the policy. There are a few videos I have posted which will need to be removed based on a decision here... for example, in the snowshoe blat, I pass multiple cars. I'm generally doing the speed limit, and exceed the limit to pass (I think that's allowed??? but not sure). Anyway, does that need to be removed (that's a question posed to club members in general). I disagree about not showing the speedo, even if you're not doing anything illegal. If the viewer doesn't know the speedlimit, that's their problem. If they know the speed limit, they know you're not doing anything wreckless - so a non-issue. Question is... do we draw the line at "technically illegal", such as gently rolling through a stop sign, or going over the speed limit at a "reasonable pace", or do we draw the line at wreckless behavior, such as actually racing another vehicle on the street, or going plain crazy on the road, crossing double yellows, etc... I lean towards the "wreckless" test, rather than "technically illegal" test. I think we should take reasonable measures to limit club liability, but going to the "technically illegal" standard is too much IMO. Waiting for input from others... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scannon Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 I lean towards the "wreckless" test, rather than "technically illegal" test. I think we should take reasonable measures to limit club liability, but going to the "technically illegal" standard is too much IMO. :iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxologist Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 reckless is a better standard. my or anyone elses' Dragon videos would hidden be under the illegal stipulation. hell, even showing that series of turns marked 10mph on Hellbender would be no go then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slngsht Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 reckless is a better standard. my or anyone elses' Dragon videos would hidden be under the illegal stipulation. hell, even showing that series of turns marked 10mph on Hellbender would be no go then. I guess reckless is the correct spelling. I'm not sure where I got wreckless from :crazy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxologist Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 wreckless is always good:cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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