Birkin engine mounts, Kent engine.

[pethier]

10 hours ago, IamScotticus said:

@3Ducs

My first idea is yank out the oil cooler.  Shouldn't need it in NH.  Un-clutter and un-complicate.

I took out the oil cooler on my 1700 Super Sprint Caterham.  Now that I have the Zetec in, I hope I don't need to put the oil cooler back.  I have my air horns living in the place where the oil cooler used to live. 

 

I am a Minnesota autcrosser like the Birkin guy who sold me his entire Zetec package, and I don't see an oil cooler in that pile.  Neither of us are into endurance racing.

 

 

 

 

[pethier]

23 hours ago, 11Budlite said:

These are the best photos I have of the Birkin mounts for a Zetec if that helps.

When I transported my ex-Birkin Zetec stuff from Steve's place to the shop in Isanti we kept the engine upright.  Steve and I stabilized it with its Birkin engine mounts and couple of  2x6s, then put four ratchet straps on it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pethier]

I have located what I assume are the original Caterham factory mounts for my 1700 Super Sprint (which I assume is the same as other Kent motors). They may or may not be the same as a Lotus mount. 

 

In any case, they have been sold with my 1700 Super Sprint engine el al, pending delivery.

 

You will note that the engine interface is quite unlike the Zetec

 

 

Edited August 2 by pethier
correction for brain fade

[3Ducs]

4 hours ago, IamScotticus said:

Here's a Caterham Xflow mount on a XKE isolator.

 

Yes, those are fan blades. 

Three holes in the frame. Simple.  And you need simple.  But the Birkin mount is superior in that it resists sway better.  The XKE isolators go soft quickly in this car.  But If you can't locate Birkins, I think the Caterham/Lotus type is easier to fab.

I will have to see if XKE isolators are available in a more durable rubber.  Lately they have been known to be produced taller in height than what 7s use. Either taller or the rubber doesn't compress for the engine to settle at normal height.  So I have read.  I have new isolators I will have to compare. But this isn't a problem for anyone building new brackets.

I'm not getting any replies from Birkin, don't know if they are in business anymore. The Birkin mounts are virtually solid mounts, allow for almost no engine movement. Here's the T9 from the car. 

[3Ducs]

2 hours ago, pethier said:

I have located what I assume are the original Caterham factory mounts for my 1700 Super Sprint (which I assume is the same as other Kent motors). They may or may not be the same as a Lotus mount. 

 

In any case, they have been sold with my 1700 Super Sprint engine el al, pending delivery.

 

You will note that the engine interface is quite unlike the Zetec

 

 

This Birkin/Kent motor mount quest is quite a pita!I think your idea of fabbing prototypes from PVC tubing is good. It's been a long time since I fired up my Lincoln SP150 welder, not since I was doing rotisserie chassis restorations on XKEs in 1998 actually, but I can get a tank of CO2 and start practicing. Some good images of Birkin Kent mounts would help. I wish the mounts came with my car!!

[pethier]

1 hour ago, 3Ducs said:

I think your idea of fabbing prototypes from PVC tubing is good. 

It is a great idea.  It came from IamScotticus.

[MV8]

There is no need to convert to jag mounts (cutting out the birkin chassis mounts in the process). Somebody with birkin mounts (doesn't matter which engine) can post dimensions of the poly bushes (overall assembly length, bolt size, etc) so a similar (possibly same) poly mount can be used in making new mount brackets. Check the chassis boss bolt size and thread on what you have.

 

A engine level from side to side and centered is pretty much universal, but level from front to back may not be as it sets the ujoint angles. A new trans mount would be a good idea before mocking this up. Get a digital protractor to check that. Load the rear suspension with drive weight in the seat to duplicate angles when driving normally.

 

Straight argon or argon-co2 mix is more effective and not much more expensive. You could also switch to flux core for more penetration and no bottle to rent/buy or lug around. An electronic face shield is very nice  and they make magnifiers and spot lights to go on the shield for us older folks. If you can weld then you can cut and make the mounts as needed or at least tack it for someone else to finish. You need an angle grinder, hand held bandsaw for a metal cutting blade, rotary files, etc.

 

Make the block plate outside corners based on a trace of a 1/2 inch drive socket on the bolt heads. Measure for the block spacer using a dial caliper and straight edge across the other block bosses. Weld the spacer to the plate so it won't get lost on the next tear down.

 

Edited August 3 by MV8

[IamScotticus]

4 hours ago, MV8 said:

sets the ujoint angles

Great point and something novices typically don't know about.  What would be a sufficient front Ujoint angle?

 

Side note,my live axle angle, coilover and top mount, are set at about 95°.  I assume this is to maintain angle throughout the range of motion?

[MV8]

The pinion would need to be rotated so a trans slip yoke reference (like a ujoint cap secured to the slip yoke) could be accessed from the top or bottom to check the angle of the trans output shaft. The pinion angle would also need to be accessible from top or bottom (could also use the ujoint cap). The driveshaft tube would be the third reference.

 

Ideally, each angle (pinion to shaft and trans output to drive shaft) is 1.5 degrees or less and equal to each other under normal driving conditions where it will spend the most time. The two angles do not need to be opposite, just equal. Another ideal is with a live axle, the angles are reduced to zero under full load with traction but not the primary focus. I'll see if I can find a link to a youtube video that shows how the shaft speeds up and slows down with each rotation whenever the angle at any joint is more than zero.

 

These cars may be designed for the engine to be level front to back but it is worth checking. The good part of the birkin mounts is that the trans mount can be shimmed to adjust that without putting the engine mounts in a bind.

 

EDIT: Found the video.

 

 

Edited August 3 by MV8

[3Ducs]

On 8/2/2025 at 12:33 PM, pethier said:

I took out the oil cooler on my 1700 Super Sprint Caterham.  Now that I have the Zetec in, I hope I don't need to put the oil cooler back.  I have my air horns living in the place where the oil cooler used to live. 

 

I am a Minnesota autcrosser like the Birkin guy who sold me his entire Zetec package, and I don't see an oil cooler in that pile.  Neither of us are into endurance racing.

 

 

 

 

I'll be pulling the cooler, also the aluminum tank. Simplify and add lightness. 

[IamScotticus]

40 minutes ago, 3Ducs said:

also the aluminum tank.

Which aluminum tank?  You need the coolant overflow tank.  It doesn't have to be where it is, but you need one.

BUT!

A translucent tank/bottle is better so you can see the level.  A $5 radiator cap can be the death of your Xflow (a lost a Subaru to a blown cap).

The standard Caterham bottle with the bracket (edit wirh source later) is a good one. Or JAZ has good bottles.

Edited August 3 by IamScotticus

[3Ducs]

Just now, IamScotticus said:

Which aluminum tank?  You need the coolant overflow tank.  It doesn't have to be where it is, but you need one.

I also have the plastic tank, I'll sort those later. For now Kent motor mounts as originally fitted are a priority, I'm making arrangements for a warm Kent engine with an aluminum crossflow head. I'm looking forward to driving the roads around the lakes that I enjoyed 20 years ago on my Ducati 900 Supersport, I'd like to get on the Club Motorsports track in Tamworth, a beautiful three mile flowing track built into the side of a little mountain. 

[3Ducs]

On 8/3/2025 at 6:02 AM, MV8 said:

There is no need to convert to jag mounts (cutting out the birkin chassis mounts in the process). Somebody with birkin mounts (doesn't matter which engine) can post dimensions of the poly bushes (overall assembly length, bolt size, etc) so a similar (possibly same) poly mount can be used in making new mount brackets. Check the chassis boss bolt size and thread on what you have.

 

A engine level from side to side and centered is pretty much universal, but level from front to back may not be as it sets the ujoint angles. A new trans mount would be a good idea before mocking this up. Get a digital protractor to check that. Load the rear suspension with drive weight in the seat to duplicate angles when driving normally.

 

Straight argon or argon-co2 mix is more effective and not much more expensive. You could also switch to flux core for more penetration and no bottle to rent/buy or lug around. An electronic face shield is very nice  and they make magnifiers and spot lights to go on the shield for us older folks. If you can weld then you can cut and make the mounts as needed or at least tack it for someone else to finish. You need an angle grinder, hand held bandsaw for a metal cutting blade, rotary files, etc.

 

Make the block plate outside corners based on a trace of a 1/2 inch drive socket on the bolt heads. Measure for the block spacer using a dial caliper and straight edge across the other block bosses. Weld the spacer to the plate so it won't get lost on the next tear down.

 

I like CO2 for penetration in thicker materials. I have an electronic shield, HF table bandsaw, grinders, etc. Back when I was doing XK-Es I had a tank of "tri-gas", it worked great on stainless steel and also thinner carbon steel. The local welding gas supplier won't fill my larger tanks, rendering them useless. It's a scam. But I hope to find the proper Birkin?Kent motor mounts, that would solve the issues. 

Edited August 16 by 3Ducs

[11Budlite]

On 8/1/2025 at 3:18 PM, 3Ducs said:

Thank-you. I just called and left a message. I'm hoping to have the car on the road this season but it probably won't happen. Once the snow falls here in New Hampshire and the salt goes down on the roads I'll have to wait until late April or early May, the salt needs to be washed away by rainfall. 

 

Here's a pic of my car, the towel wrapped exhaust manifold is seen inside the engine bay. 

 

 

I'm pretty sure I know this car, but I could be wrong. It looks like the car owned by a couple from Ohio that I met back in 2008 at Carlisle.

[11Budlite]

19 hours ago, 3Ducs said:

I also have the plastic tank, I'll sort those later. For now Kent motor mounts as originally fitted are a priority, I'm making arrangements for a warm Kent engine with an aluminum crossflow head. I'm looking forward to driving the roads around the lakes that I enjoyed 20 years ago on my Ducati 900 Supersport, I'd like to get on the Club Motorsports track in Tamworth, a beautiful three mile flowing track built into the side of a little mountain. 

 

Club is my favorite track in New England, absolutely beautiful and a lot of fun. Just got back from a 2-day event at Canaan, had a blast!

[3Ducs]

On 8/4/2025 at 10:01 AM, 11Budlite said:

 

I'm pretty sure I know this car, but I could be wrong. It looks like the car owned by a couple from Ohio that I met back in 2008 at Carlisle.

It was in East Texas since 2012, had only been autocrossed etc before then, I don't think it's ever been registered for the road. All the canvas is in excellent condition, the car doesn't look as if it has a lot of miles on it, it isn't showing signs of having been out in the weather, there's no rust. 

[11Budlite]

24 minutes ago, 3Ducs said:

It was in East Texas since 2012, had only been autocrossed etc before then, I don't think it's ever been registered for the road. All the canvas is in excellent condition, the car doesn't look as if it has a lot of miles on it, it isn't showing signs of having been out in the weather, there's no rust. 

 

It took a little research but I believe this is the car owned by Bob and Mary Kansa out of Ohio. Forum name: 'southwind25'. I know when I saw it they kept it REALLY clean: 

 

Edited August 5 by 11Budlite

[3Ducs]

2 hours ago, 11Budlite said:

 

It took a little research but I believe this is the car owned by Bob and Mary Kansa out of Ohio. Forum name: 'southwind25'. I know when I saw it they kept it REALLY clean: 

 

Yes, Jimmy Hilton bought it, I bought it from him. I will have a warmish 1700 Kent engine built for it, I intend it to have an aluminum cross flow head. I do need to find original Birkin Kent motor mounts, but I have time, the engine won't be ready until December, working in an unheated New Hampshire garage in the dead of winter is not my cup of tea, the car won't be on the road until the salt is washed off the roads in late April. I just found that the front hubs are aluminum, cool. 

[3Ducs]

I just sent another message to Birkin Direct USA about the Kent motor mounts for my 1999 Birkin S3. They still haven't responded to my message from 1 August. I hope they are still in business. 

[3Ducs]

On 8/1/2025 at 1:11 PM, 11Budlite said:

There's a phone number for Tom Carlin on this page: https://birkindirect-usa.com/pre-owned/

I tried texting to this, no reply. Thank-you.