Modern day seven

[slngsht]

the major thing the render lacks is a trunk area - that's kind of a must have.

 

the elbow area will be annoying as heck on long cruises.

 

 

[gwar1000]

Now the discussion is getting better. I was worried there a little it was going a few directions but now it got back on track.

 

Rogue se7ens

How do you come up with a composite body?? Do you start with a model (clay)? Do you have somebody that does sketches for you or is it something you do yourself?

 

I think people would be interested in a modern seven maybe not the ones I have shown but just look at the response that Ariel has gotten with there car. When I look at the 7 the only thing that bothers me is that it’s not very appealing to me "MY opinion".

The thing that draws me close to it is the philosophy. I just wish someone can take the 7 and modernize it. Maybe break up the body,play with the propotions I little.

 

Rogue se7ens

Maybe your direction is taking a look a specific areas you can profit from. One thing I noticed in alot of 7's is the lack of IP surface or detail. Maybe its simple thing like bonnet vents,scoops, and a new wheel flare.

 

I love the composite MINI. I've been looking at getting one maybe next fall.

 

If your interest send me an email. I can sketch some stuff up for you

 

Gabe

[gwar1000]

the major thing the render lacks is a trunk area - that's kind of a must have.

 

the elbow area will be annoying as heck on long cruises.

 

 

I'll do a side view tonight take care of the trunk space and elbow room

[slngsht]

 

I'll do a side view tonight take care of the trunk space and elbow room

 

Rear view would help alot too. It's hard to visualize the back without the trunk. You got mad skilz by the way :yesnod:

 

I sent my design to Caterham a while back. Still waiting for response:

 

http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/1776108325_catDesign.JPG

 

:jester:

[BusaNostra]

 

Rear view would help alot too. It's hard to visualize the back without the trunk. You got mad skilz by the way :yesnod:

 

I sent my design to Caterham a while back. Still waiting for response:

 

http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/1776108325_catDesign.JPG

 

:jester:

 

hAHAHAHAHA! i LIKE THE TIRES.

YOU SHOULD HAVE SEND THE DESIGN TO DUNKIN DONUT INSTEAD OF CATERHAM! :lol:

[JohnCh]

I agree with the comments regarding lack of shoulder room and boot space. The other area I think should be addressed is the roll bar. It looks great, but it needs to pass a tech inspection so it must have rear stays (see Mazda's outstanding drawing ) and sufficient height. It also needs triangulation if you go with a single hoop like in the later pictures. The aspect of the design that caught my attention in the beginning was the use of character lines. They gave the shape a better sensation of speed and kept my eye moving from front to back.

 

-John

[Rogue Se7ens]

 

gwar1000 wrote:

"When I look at the 7 the only thing that bothers me is that it’s not very appealing to me "MY opinion".

The thing that draws me close to it is the philosophy."

 

These are my feelings as well. I build cars because I like the idea of being able design and fabricate something simple and fun. If I could I would be building Elise based cars, maybe something based on the Esprit, I also like Elfin cars, but that would be way out of my range so I stick to the Mini and 7. I do carbon parts for the New Mini, but though I like the car (don't have one) I have never been involved with the New Mini community, rather I sell through one online retailer.

As far as actually building body panels (I personally have never build a full body from scratch) I like to design with Solidworks and make a model of the part. If I had the funds, or investors, I have dealt with a shop that has a 5 axis CNC that can cut the entire body, but I don't have the funds so I make a plug out of wood, foam, bondo, nothing high tech, sectioning the solid model like a loaf of bread.

As far as the actual design, the shoulder area and boot space could be worked out, I think the sketch is mainly to give the overall look. I would though strongly recommend using existing and available parts for areas like lights, turn signals, etc.

[BusaNostra]

OK....here's another modern day 7 made by DONKERVOORT

 

http://www.donkervoort.nl/cars/d8gt.htm

http://www.donkervoort.nl/cars/d8270rs.htm

http://www.donkervoort.nl/cars/d8.htm

[BusaLoco]

 

Seriously, lightness is just part of the formula. Come to think of it, look at the path he took. He always innovated, and the progression in his designs show it. From going mid-engine to aero innovation - he constantly innovated. I doubt he would care much for building the same design year after year. But even though Colin may think highly of it, perhaps being on the bleeding edge is not the smartest thing for a startup trying to make it in the US kit car market.

 

 

Yes, as usual, you are absolutely right! ... That's exactly my point.

The SEVEN is, in fact, an anachronism ... a very special car in it's time.

Colin took the space frame idea and took it as far as he could.

When time and technology had passed the car by it (the SEVEN) was released into the careful hands of Caterham.

That's it!

But the SEVEN and TODAY? ... Somehow I can't quite wrap my head around a front engined, space framed, carbon bodied monocoque with downforce by way of skirts! ... It just doesn't work!

The SEVEN stands alone for what it was and still is!

The SEVEN is a movement, it's not just a car.

The SEVEN represents (for Seven Lover's everywhere ... Caterhams, Westies, Locosts and every other clone) a way to bring affordable racing enthusiasm to anybody who is willing to buy or build it!

 

[S1Steve]

I sent a email to Donkervoort Cars in the Netherlands a few years ago, and asked if they imported their cars to the States. They said no and have no plans to. I think they are AWESOME cars.

My wife saw one in Denmark and said I would love the way they sound. I guess that means loud.

I do know they are expensive.

Steve

[Boxologist]

Also have to realize that an engine, drivetrain and suspension have to ingrated into the car's design. while exterior designs look great, it can change a great deal once the mechanicals are settle on and it's space needs. simply considering the height of say an s2000, LS1, or supercharger GM v6 drivetrain make the front taller than using a vauxhall or Rover 4 cyl. engine.

 

 

[powderbrake]

I like all the variations that qwar1000 has developed, and I have a couple suggestions/comments.

 

1) The side vents on the blue model will put the heat at the shoulder/arm of the driver and passenger.

2) The top hood vents may put the heat on the faces on the green model

3) The orange model does both.

 

Vents are critical on a seven, and require a lot of forethought. There is a lot of underhood heat to be released. Without a tall windshield, the hood vents may let the heat hit the faces. Deman has a clever side vent but it is low and forward, and likely lets the heat dissipate before hitting the drivers elbow. Summer driving can be tiring if the heat from the footwells and from the exhaust, and possible side vents, all hit the driver or passenger.

 

( Edit) I also suggest the front fenders end at about 4" from the ground at the rear, unless you enjoy being pelted by 60mph pebbles.

 

I love the modern aspect, but when it come to the useage of the car, track days or competition will dictate a roll bar or cage that may be difficult to "style". So it is important to identify the customer base. The intended useage may drastically affect the design.

The Superformance S1 has some modern aspects to it, such as the dual roll bars, side vent ( just pasted on) the flare under the trunk ala Doonkervoot, the rounded windshield pillars, the rounded nose.

Superformance S1

 

Which leads me to Rouge Se7ens question of "will they buy it?"

It appears that you presently have a basic frame, the nose and fenders of a traditional seven. I believe this will appeal only to the current 'Locost" builder, who is willing to search out his own parts, figure out what will work and won't work, and in general is interested in lots of fabrication and low cost. I believe the typical kit builder would prefer to have all the details worked out by the car supplier, and find himself an engine and transmission, and drop it in.

 

If you build a "modern seven" body, it depends so much on the chassis and the engine size and mounting locations, that it would appear to be very difficult to not supply a complete kit. I believe you have to choose between a complete kit/car supplier, and being a component supplier for the do-it-yourselfer.

 

While Westfield, Deman, WCM, and Stalker (did I miss any?) have complete kits and/or complete cars, they are not at the quantity level of Caterham, and are all small businesses. These guys have also found it is a tough market to break into, and that customers all want something a little different. They also find there are chassis and body changes necessary for different engines.

 

The real advantage you have these days is the USA7s forum, which brings together the multitude of cars and the uses thay are put to, and a willingness to discuss the LSIS , no matter it's lineage.:cheers:

[Rogue Se7ens]

Gabe I would be interested in seeing more of your sketches, email would be great. I started laying out a few basics to get an idea of proportion.

I show a tire close to a 225 50 15, and as you can see this doesn't give much of a conical shape to the fender when put up against the stock frame. Also an idea concerning the mirrors, could they be integrated into the body work, maybe at the trailing edge of a side vent, this would help direct the air flow more away from the driver.http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/1922703455_lotus frame assembly2.jpghttp://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/1479584811_lotus frame assembly.jpg

[gwar1000]

Awesome rogue se7ens

 

here is one I did over an RCR frame posted in another topic

 

 

 

After taking some coments here it would be nice t takle to issues

1) shoulder room

2) trunk space

 

it might shift the proprtions just a little but it can be fixedhttp://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/472765947_warfield1.jpg

[gwar1000]

Gabe I would be interested in seeing more of your sketches, email would be great. I started laying out a few basics to get an idea of proportion.

I show a tire close to a 225 50 15, and as you can see this doesn't give much of a conical shape to the fender when put up against the stock frame. Also an idea concerning the mirrors, could they be integrated into the body work, maybe at the trailing edge of a side vent, this would help direct the air flow more away from the driver.http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/1922703455_lotus frame assembly2.jpghttp://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/1479584811_lotus frame assembly.jpg

 

 

 

I'm on it I'll post on saturday

[BobDrye]

This is a Lotus concept car.http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/2024702634_Project1.jpg

[BusaNostra]

Bob....that's way too much for the 7, maybe for Elise. Oh by the way, Elise & Exige surpassed that design. They are running like dart vader now.

[Rogue Se7ens]

Here is a little more, tried to smooth it out a little, though stick with the 7 lines. A couple questions: I thought the grill opening would look good slanted back, but would that take away from the 7 look. I was also thinking a little shape to the rear end would liven it up a little, I like the rear of the Elfin Streamliner Coupe. I also would like to find some headlight similar to the Elise to incorporate into the nose bonnet area. Would a single roll hoop fit better, and what about glass, if you are going to make it, it would be best to find something existing that will work, so flat or curved? What do others think?http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/1373289314_lotus frame assembly2.jpg

[gwar1000]

http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/1884308077_CHANGES1.jpg

 

Here is an image showing some of the previous post issues :

1- SHOULDER ROOM- I WOULD MOVE REAR WHEEL BACK

TO ALLOW MORESHOULDER ROOM

2- ELBOW AREA - WHEN MOVING THE REAR WHEEL BACK

THE ELBOW ROOM BECOMES LARGER

3- I WOULD ADD ONTO THE REAR TO ALLOW MORE TRUNK SPACE

 

Rogue Se7ens can you send some images to me

1)A straight side view with a front tire

2)Top view

3)Front 3/4 from a persons view

4)Rear 3/4 from a persons view

my email gwar1000@hotmail.com

Thanks Gabe Warfield

[gwar1000]

http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/1407125580_1.jpg

 

Here is some modifications to your model:

 

some spots look alittle heavy mainly exhaust and rollbar but overall pretty neat

I would put more section through the budy side also in the wheel flare s it catches more light and doesnt look flat