Soooo... what will it be?

[BobDrye]

Maybe we could be the first ones to drive thru DC on a small blat with gun racks on our rollbars. Just think of the media coverage that we could generate if 10 sevens drove around 1600 Pa Ave for 1 hour.

 

 

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[slngsht]

well, it won't be 1 hour

[Boxologist]

I am much happier having (and carrying) a gun that I don't need, than needing a gun that I don't have.

 

i pretty much feel the same way, and I don't have a firearm. Its a right i don't have to excercise. I may in the future, and I'm glad that its my choice. I do beleive that a licencing procedure is preferable in most areas where a gun is not neccessary.

[scannon]

I just returned from a trip to Kansas and Missouri. For the first time, I saw decals on store windows banning weapons on the premises, right next to the ones banning smoking.

 

I grew up with guns, a BB gun and then a .22 were a normal part of life for myself and my friends. I still own guns and enjoy shooting them from time to time.

 

A few years ago while living in California after the Northridge earthquakes, I used my .357 to capture a drug addict who was trying to steal a car from our mostly abandoned neighborhood. He and his friends had been breaking into abandoned homes and ransacking them, stealing what they could and trashing the rest and leaving behind their used needles and other drug stuff. I also used it to run off some low life squatters who were causing trouble in the neighborhood. For about 9 months after the quake it was like living in a 3rd world country.

 

Once the word spread that there were a couple of people still living in the neighborhood who had guns and were willing to use them, the trouble stopped.

 

Skip

[spotcheck]

" A well regulated militia......."

 

To permanently cement the intent of our Founders and the authors of the Constitution and its Amendments in the political and social climate of the revolutionary 18th century Colonies would be to deny the evolving nature of These United States of America in the 21st century.

 

Georgia "Bubbas" with Glocks in the center consoles of their pick-em-ups are not any type of militia, much less well regulated.

 

I rail at the slightest infringments by government on individual freedoms and rights (re: W and the telecom immunity outrage), but unregulated firearms no longer support the broader social good. I've used shotguns and rifles for hunting. I've used pistols for target shooting. Fine. Regulate. Register. The Russkies are not going to invade, for cryin' out loud.

 

Anecdotes abound on both sides. Mine would begin with Engineering classes I had 3 decades ago in a Va Tech classroom that was recently the site of......... Well, you get the point. I did not come to my position because of that tragedy - it only reinforced it.

 

[slngsht]

" A well regulated militia......."

 

To permanently cement the intent of our Founders and the authors of the Constitution and its Amendments in the political and social climate of the revolutionary 18th century Colonies would be to deny the evolving nature of These United States of America in the 21st century.

 

Georgia "Bubbas" with Glocks in the center consoles of their pick-em-ups are not any type of militia, much less well regulated.

 

I rail at the slightest infringments by government on individual freedoms and rights (re: W and the telecom immunity outrage), but unregulated firearms no longer support the broader social good. I've used shotguns and rifles for hunting. I've used pistols for target shooting. Fine. Regulate. Register. The Russkies are not going to invade, for cryin' out loud.

 

Anecdotes abound on both sides. Mine would begin with Engineering classes I had 3 decades ago in a Va Tech classroom that was recently the site of......... Well, you get the point. I did not come to my position because of that tragedy - it only reinforced it.

 

That is precisely what's at the heart of the argument. Is it the right of the state or the right of the individual? I (in my unedumacated opinion) think it's an individual right. Without it, the other part (militia) is not possible - whether it is needed or not.

 

I'm completely with you on the wiretapping without warrants mess. Another example of what happens when there is total disregard of the constitution. If that's not a violation of the 4th amendment, I don't know what is.

 

The problem is that you cannot selectively say "well, this amendment is total BS, so let's pretend it's not there". the result is, another group will simply ignore some other amendment that the rest of the people really care about.

 

If the 2nd amendment is no longer needed, opponents need to get the 2/3 vote needed to repeal it. Leaving it there, and ignoring it is not the solution.

[spotcheck]

This is precisely the type of discourse and debate that I love about the USA. Of course, you are 100% wrong, but that's cool with me - I defend your right to be off target (pun intended. heh-heh-heh).

 

Just kidding.........put the gun down.....slowly..........slowly..............

[slngsht]

This is precisely the type of discourse and debate that I love about the USA. Of course, you are 100% wrong, but that's cool with me - I defend your right to be off target (pun intended. heh-heh-heh).

 

Just kidding.........put the gun down.....slowly..........slowly..............

 

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

 

:thumbs:

 

:flag:

[powderbrake]

slngsht:

It's OK to put your gun down slowly.......I've got your back.

 

 

[slngsht]

slngsht:

It's OK to put your gun down slowly.......I've got your back.

 

 

Thanks Jerry, my mind is at ease

:thumbs:

http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/1190375103_588_yard_dog_eddens.jpg

[spotcheck]

This should really get you spun up -

 

My general attitude is "Don't hit me. Don't throw up on me. Do anything else you like." Along those lines....

 

Legalize drugs. All of 'em. Most corporations (like the one I work for) have pre-employment and random drug testing programs in place. You wanna get high? Great - good for you - go for it - you just can't work next to me.

 

The "war on drugs" is a joke. We will never overcome the market force of demand by trying to interdict supply - there is simply too much money at stake. Hell, the USA did as much for the global opiate supply as anyone in history when we took down the Taliban without an alternate economy in place for the Afgans trying to put food on the table for their kids. I can't blame them for growing poppies. Not making a political point, just an economics point.

 

License the manufacturers like we do distillers. Tax the product, just like my Marlboros and my Glenlivet, but keep it affordable to reduce the crime needed to get the money to get high. Free needle exchange and free condoms.

 

Free up the court system, the DEA budget, health-care for HIV-AIDS, the public safety departments. Take a fraction of the savings and put it into children's education, nutrition, health care. Reduction in violent crime if you don't need weapons to protect your corner from the competition. Probably do more for my concerns about guns than any other method. Yes - I was BIG fan of Major Bunnie Coleman's "DMZ" in The Wire.

 

No, I'm not a Libertarian. I'm not Republican or Democrat. I'm a card-carrying Pragmatic Cynic.

 

Last - that was one HELLUVA shot on the praire dog. You could probably tag me all the way down here in Atlanta. I'm staying in the basement for a while.

[powderbrake]

That doesn't spin me up. That is an opinion you have that I may not agree with, but you are free to vote in the politicians that may do that. I personally believe it would be a scary country to live in, with likely even more spaced out users than we have now.

 

But....... there are NO amendments specifically granting drug rights to the people, whereas there IS one that grants gun rights to the people.

 

ps. I don't have you in my sights, it's safe to come out now. This is political discourse, which should be done in a gentlemanly fashion. If in the end we cannot agree, then we agree to disagree.

[slngsht]

With Jerry on this one - again

 

right to bear arms, freedom of speech, protection against unreasonable searches, due process, trial by jury, etc... At many times in our history, it would have been more convenient to do away with one or more of them for "the greater good". If we had given in each time, we would not have any rights left. So as far as I'm concerned, if we as a nation think that one of these rights is no longer needed in our society, we should go towards the formal process of amending the constitution. Otherwise, themz teh rulz.

 

 

Regarding legalization of drugs, personally I think it's a bad idea, but if our elected officials enacting legislation to do it, fine by me.

 

[Mondo]

It is nice when people can express their ideas and not get slammed...

 

I agree with Box in that I don't have any weapons in my house (2 kids at home) but your welcome to have them in your home if you choose. And if someone enters your house in the middle of the night, you have the right to blow them away without asking what they're doing there etc...

 

As far as the drug issue, I don't think making it legal has helped the problem in countries like Holland. No matter how cheap you make them, drug addicts won't be able to hold a job so they'll likely be the one who enters someone else's house at night and gets blown away.... maybe legalizing drugs is the solution;)

 

Perhaps they should try it with marijuana first and see how it goes... short of stealing Doritos from a 7/11 it might not be a big deal.

 

[spotcheck]

Agree enthusiastically with all of you on the value of differing opinions and views. Wouldn't want to be in a place where the overwhelming majority of people thought exactly like me. (That's certainly not the case in even in my own house . The Pragmatic Cynic platform sometimes loses the necessary hope on issues like violence, child welfare, and so on. I guess the underlying theme is that there are various avenues to achieving various outcomes.

 

Its not always the voters, the Congress, or the Amendment process. The Supremes get to weigh in on issues like Roe v Wade, Brown v Board, the DC ban, Florida electoral issues, and The Champ. The Pragmatic Cynic platform believes that politics-du-jour sometimes play a role in those exalted hallways. 9-0 reversing The Champ's draft-doging conviction? Puh-lese. I supported him all the way, but the threat of riots carried more weight with them than my opinion.

 

And so it goes........Thanks for the interesting discussion, guys.

 

As a transplanted Michiganian, I can tell you with certainty that the most difficult issue facing the nation in 2008 is: One out. Two on. Exactly who in The Detroit Tigers lineup card are you gonna want to pitch around?

 

Also - how many yards on that praire dog measuring wheel? Looks like a mile from the photo!!

[Mandurath]

Never been to any meetings, but we do have militia here in TN. Perhaps they are just Bubba's, I dunno, I am one myself. But those I do know can be pretty stealthy and can shoot accurately. I used to have a gun rack in my truck, but oddly enough, it was in the way when we needed to strap a baby seat in the back so its not there now. Being so spread out across the country we see a large difference in society. Basically, people are good, will help you out. However, not to far from that well lit street where the kids are playing is a dim alley that smell like urine and garbage. Here there be monsters. I have been to some real hell holes in my treks to deliver the unnecessary goods that our country seems to love. Chicago, Detroit, NY/NJ, Houston, Cincy, they all have some seriously bad areas. Unfortunately for me, these areas seem to have alot of warehouse space. I used to carry in my truck, though its highly illegal. Though even the police/troopers/DOT that I know agree that we should be allowed. I have had to use my gun to scare off would be thieves (display only, but I am also a very big man and am never sure if it was the gun, my tire thumper, or just me that scared them away), once I used my semi to pin them (the car) to the wall until the cops got there. We used to be told DO NOT STOP in certain areas. Not even for stop signs. This was only on high value loads ie Cigarettes, Nike's, thankfully I do not deliver those anymore so maybe those things have changed. So, are we really that civilized? One of the things that make it safe for those that do not carry might be those that do. Good discussion, though, as we all know how sometimes political/religous forums can get out of hand. Hell, Camaro vs Mustang gets out of hand, let alone something serious.

 

As to my home, my dogs will not let in intruder get close enough to take my gun. I also have a big stick AND a gun.

 

I won't matter about the Tigers, they will still score on my Reds :banghead:

 

Prarie dog shot looks like 588 yards, at least thats what I thought the pic said.

[powderbrake]

Yes it was 588 yards.

I finally cracked the 500 Yard Club of Varmint Hunters Association. Of course that is the lowest classification. They have 1000, 1500 and 2000 yard classes as well. I can't imagine hitting one at 2000 yards.

 

For example the one I hit was at 588 yards (laser measurement), and with a 22-250 55 grain bullet at 3450 feet per second, the bullet drop is about 65 inches from my 200 yard zero point, and the wind drift that day was about 30 inches.

 

I wish I could say I hit on the first shot, but it took about 5 shots to dial it in.

[BobDrye]

Yes it was 588 yards.

I finally cracked the 500 Yard Club of Varmint Hunters Association. Of course that is the lowest classification. They have 1000, 1500 and 2000 yard classes as well. I can't imagine hitting one at 2000 yards.

 

For example the one I hit was at 588 yards (laser measurement), and with a 22-250 55 grain bullet at 3450 feet per second, the bullet drop is about 65 inches from my 200 yard zero point, and the wind drift that day was about 30 inches.

 

I wish I could say I hit on the first shot, but it took about 5 shots to dial it in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/1174657005_shooter31.jpg

[spotcheck]

Yes it was 588 yards.

I finally cracked the 500 Yard Club of Varmint Hunters Association. Of course that is the lowest classification. They have 1000, 1500 and 2000 yard classes as well. I can't imagine hitting one at 2000 yards.

 

For example the one I hit was at 588 yards (laser measurement), and with a 22-250 55 grain bullet at 3450 feet per second, the bullet drop is about 65 inches from my 200 yard zero point, and the wind drift that day was about 30 inches.

 

I wish I could say I hit on the first shot, but it took about 5 shots to dial it in.

 

Holy Gopher!! Hope you're not apologizing for the first four trial shots. 5 ft down and 2.5 feet left (or right)!!! Well Done.

 

2000 yd = >1-1/4 miles. Saw Clint Eastwood do that in a movie once, I think.

[WestTexasS2K]

Yes it was 588 yards.

I finally cracked the 500 Yard Club of Varmint Hunters Association. Of course that is the lowest classification. They have 1000, 1500 and 2000 yard classes as well. I can't imagine hitting one at 2000 yards.

 

For example the one I hit was at 588 yards (laser measurement), and with a 22-250 55 grain bullet at 3450 feet per second, the bullet drop is about 65 inches from my 200 yard zero point, and the wind drift that day was about 30 inches.

 

I wish I could say I hit on the first shot, but it took about 5 shots to dial it in.

 

 

Where is Quigley when you need him.