Kitcat Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 I have yielded to automotive temptation (yet again), this time buying a new VW Toureg2, V6 diesel, to pull my new 7x16 enclosed trailer, to haul my Caterham around in. I traded in my '08 M3 to make this somewhat affordable. BTW, the vehicle blew the mind of the workers at the trailer place. They refused to believe that it cld tow 7700 lbs: "That little thing?" and had trouble grasping how complete the VW tow package was. Several calls were made to the dealership to confirm what I was saying about it being pre-wired for the electric trailer brakes, etc. Ultimately they loved it. "Wow, 28 mpg?" Anyhow, the first of what are probably many questions: 1] I have 4 ratcheting tie down straps. Since I use prisoner wheels and cant thread the straps thru the wheels, is it ok to loop them around an A-arm and tighten to the D-rings? 2] Do I criss cross the tie downs or hook rt side to rt side D ring, etc.? 3] Where do I park the car relative to the tandem axles? My VW manual says load to maximum tongue weight (650 lbs or so). If I park the car so its centered over the tandem wheels, will that do it? The trailer guys said just do it so the trailer is relatively level (not nose down/up). 4] Tips, suggestions? I head to NJ for the 7ens gathering this weekend so I will quickly baptize the whole set up. Mike M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Ebrahimi Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 What kind of trailer? A 7 is so light, you could probably strap it down with bungie cords I think you'll find that you will struggle to criss-cross the straps even though that is the preferred method. With the limited suspension travel of a 7 and the scarcity of accessible hook up points, you'll end up strapping where you can and it will be fine. On Frankn7 we always hooked to the front a-arms and then a big strap to the rollbar down over the trunk. It wasn't the best way, but the car never moved. I plan to add proper tie-down points to the car as I revamp it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowss7 Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 (edited) Mike, as someone who totalled a Durango (wife's) while early in my towing career, be careful. I do use the lower a arms up front to tie down. I use small padded tow straps with d rings on them that I attach the tie downs to. I don't cross them. As for tongue weight, I belive that is very important to getting a good safe pull. Too far back and you can get it swaying (like mine did which resulted in my accident.) I find in my 18 ft trailer, the front wheels are about 4 feet or so from the front of the trailer. It was an experiment to get the right feel. Did you get the anti sway control bar installed? Something like this http://www.etrailer.com/Weight-Distribution/Reese/RP66155. Just take it slow, until you feel comfortable and then don't get cocky and think you can drive it like your M3. Just my two cents. I'm sure some other well practiced towers will chime in too. Tom Edited June 24, 2011 by yellowss7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsimon Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Leave the car's gearbox in neutral when loaded on the trailer. Gearbox and diffy will take a bashing otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOTTTCAR Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Hook the trailer to the tow vehicle empty on a flat surface. Adjust the ball height (adjustable height hitch) so that the floor of the trailer is level front to back. This will allow the tires on a tandem trailer to wear equally and have the weight distributed equally. Next center the weight of the car directly over or very slightly infront of the axels and tie it down so that the car springs will allow the car to move up and down. Strap down only the wheels not the body or you will create higher shock stresses on the straps. The front straps should pull to the front and outside ...the back straps should pull to the back and outside. Hooking to the outside lower a arms works but is not ideal. Notice that long haul new car delivery trucks strap over each wheel. That means you would have to have 2 d rings for each wheel...perfectly placed . This won't work for my trailer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Ebrahimi Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Mike, as someone who totalled a Durango (wife's) while early in my towing career, be careful. I do use the lower a arms up front to tie down. I use small padded tow straps with d rings on them that I attach the tie downs to. I don't cross them. As for tongue weight, I belive that is very important to getting a good safe pull. Too far back and you can get it swaying (like mine did which resulted in my accident.) I find in my 18 ft trailer, the front wheels are about 4 feet or so from the front of the trailer. It was an experiment to get the right feel. Did you get the anti sway control bar installed? Something like this http://www.etrailer.com/Weight-Distribution/Reese/RP66155. Just take it slow, until you feel comfortable and then don't get cocky and think you can drive it like your M3. Just my two cents. I'm sure some other well practiced towers will chime in too. Tom Good words of wisdom. I forget not everyone tows with a 3/4 ton diesel and even a 2500 lbs load can push around an SUV tow rig. Leave the car's gearbox in neutral when loaded on the trailer. Gearbox and diffy will take a bashing otherwise. Not a bad idea, but if the car is properly strapped, it shouldn't move at all. Hook the trailer to the tow vehicle empty on a flat surface. Adjust the ball height (adjustable height hitch) so that the floor of the trailer is level front to back. This will allow the tires on a tandem trailer to wear equally and have the weight distributed equally. Next center the weight of the car directly over or very slightly infront of the axels and tie it down so that the car springs will allow the car to move up and down. Strap down only the wheels not the body or you will create higher shock stresses on the straps. The front straps should pull to the front and outside ...the back straps should pull to the back and outside. Hooking to the outside lower a arms works but is not ideal. Notice that long haul new car delivery trucks strap over each wheel. That means you would have to have 2 d rings for each wheel...perfectly placed . This won't work for my trailer. I agree with your method for setting ball height and tongue weight. I won't say what you're saying about strapping to the wheels is wrong, but it's certainly not the only "proper" way to do it. You will notice most of the tractor trailer car haulers strap(chain actually) down the chassis compressing the springs. I tow a vehicle on a car trailer probably twice a month on average. I typically strap to the frame and compress the suspension to the bumpstops. Then add a backup strap to the rear axle just in case all hell breaks loose. In the end, there are a million different ways to strap a car to a trailer, as long as you're using common sense and proper hardware, you will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderbrake Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 I have a 16 foot enclosed trailer, and have found that it tows much, much better with the weight forward. I suggest you try it with the seven as far forward as the springs on your tow car allow. I experienced some sway problems while towing with my Tahoe, but solved them with a weight equalizing hitch. Now I can pass tractor-trailers at full speed, without the sway. Here is what I am talking about: http://www.etrailer.com/Weight-Distribution/Reese/RP61009.html This allows more weight on the ball, and transfers that weight to the front wheels, maintaing a more level ride. I strap down to the frame in front and reat, crossed, and pull the car down on the suspension. I do keep the car ot of gear, and place wheel chocks on the tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOTTTCAR Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 The reason for strapping down the wheels only is simply basic Physics. This big mass back there is moving up and down as you go over rough roads. The suspension of the car mitigates any violent force from being transmitted to the straps or trailer. If you get a big enough strap or chain and completely stress the strap / d rings/floor enough to collapse the suspension , then the mass effectively becomes a part of the trailer therefore transmitting any violent force instantly directly to the trailer suspension. If not tight enough however, (springs not fully collapsed ) you will get the movement of the mass being pushed by the collapsed springs slamming into the straps and attach points. Not good. …..Not saying it won’t work its just not good physics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitcat Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 (edited) Thx for the advice folks! Tom, wrecking wld certainly take the shine off this whole new adventure! P-Brake, how will I know when my tow vehicle's springs wont allow more forward positioning of my Caterham in the trailer? I assume I don't want the rear springs fully compressed. Edited June 24, 2011 by Kitcat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proj217 Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Hey Mike, Trailering can be a hell of a pain and strapping down sometimes really annoying but it gets MUCH easier each and everytime you do it. I'll be at NJMP both days so if you want any tips at all or a hand please don't hesitate to ask the guy with the mohawk My trailer is a 7x12, those ramp doors are tight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestTexasS2K Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 I tow a trailer around 30k miles a year for the last 12 or so years. I agree hitch height should have the trailer floor level as possible. Most tandem axle trailers are weighted with a front bias. You are this by measuring trailer bed length and then measure the center between the wheels most will be 16-24" further back than the trailer bed center. Trailer whipping comes from not enough weight on the tounge. I would load the car until you get a few inches of suspension compression on the back of your tow rig. Just use a tape and measure from the ground to the fender then load the car and move forward till you get the desired amount of compression. That should be a good starting point. As far as strapping the car to the trailer I don't like strapping to the wheels. If you don't have the straps straight the wheels will rotate when you hit a bump and the straps will loosen. I prefer attaching to the chassis. I do try keep my straps about three or four foot long on both front and back. This allows the car suspension to work on hard bumps but controls forward and aft movement of the car. I'm not a big fan of compressing the suspension to the bump stops. It puts a lot of load on the shocks and suspension pieces. I prefer to cross my straps too. This keeps the car from moving side to side which you wouldn't think can happen but it will if you hit wash board ruts in the road. I hauled a corvette a few years ago that the straps were not crossed. It moved all the way over against the pass side wall of the trailer and jacked the paint all up. The straps were very tight. I always cross them now. You should be able to find a tube section of the frame up front to attach to. Use lower control arms as a last resort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitcat Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 Loren: My trailer is similar: the tandem axles are somewhat rear-set. So locating the Caterham in the middle of the trailer will probably put more weight on the tongue, wh/seems to be the goal, up to a point. I have lots of frame to attach the straps to. Mike M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimrankin Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 West Texas has it right on the head. Don't make the strap too vertical and your car springs still work without hardly any strap length change. Crossing them keeps the longer strap length from letting the car work "sideways". I've towed the S2K 600 miles without the straps working out of tension and the car was still sitting on my tape marks. And yes, out of gear will keep the wear down. Hate to think of the wear spot on one small section of a gear from a long trip with no oil moving in the transmission. There is a great way to measure tongue weight with a bathroom scale. By using a 6' long piece of 4" X 4" and supporting on end on a block and the other on the scale you can lower the tongue "off set" towards the block end and measure heavy trailer tongue loads (like 500-600Lbs) on a light weight scale. Formula for length is on the web, don't remember the link but found it without much problem when I needed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOTTTCAR Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 My trailer is also heavily biased to the front . I weighed the tongue with the trailer dead level and empty when it was new. The tongue weighed 650 lbs. so in order to determine where to put the car we loaded the car and watched the scale to see where to park the car inside the trailer. We set the tongue weight to 750 lb. then took it I out for a test drive . Even trying to induce the pendulum effect, there was no inclination to push the truck around. The trailer is a 26 ft. long vee so you can load two 7s end to end but it is so front biased that there is over a ½ ton on the tongue when you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slomove Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 The tongue load will also depend on the tow car. 600 and 750 lbs may be good for a serious truck and a big trailer but my Hyundai or e.g. a Volvo wagon could not handle that even if rated for the tow weight. I read somewhere about 10-12% of laden trailer weight would be optimal for the tongue so I keep it at 300 pounds and never had fishtailing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjslutz Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 I have my tongue weight at 90 LBS and it is great at any speed & conditions. My trailer and Birkin weight is 2,100 LBS. My little TDI VW wagon works well with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestTexasS2K Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 I think 600 lbs would be excessive tongue weight on a small SUV. It's fine for a 26 footer with a Heavy truck. I think 250-300 would be a good starting point on the Tourage. My little car trailer has about 250 on the hitch no scientific method best guess. I can pick up the tounge with car on it if I really try. It tows straight as an arrow at any speed. I use a little 6x12 open trailer for most trips it's light and easy to tow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsimon Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 out of gear will keep the wear down. Out of gear is especially important with non-syncromesh gearboxes. Race cars, trucks, tractors, and heavy equipment. The tiny back and forth motion against the boomers beats the living poo out of engagement dog faces. I also crisscross the lashings if possible to increase the distance between load and trailer fixing points. Very little suspension compression is needed with longer lashings as the load's up and down movement doesn't have as much effect on the lashing's length and tension. Keep in mind that your lashing method should insure the hooks won't drop off or become disconnected with slack. Due diligence is SOP. I once heard about a brand new Caterham "Superlight" nearly rolling off a trailer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitcat Posted June 25, 2011 Author Share Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) Muchos gracias guys. I got it all hooked up and took 'er for a spin. Touareg still has decent acceleration w/2400 lb trailer and Caterham loaded and Toured full of junk (rain tires, cooler, etc). Tows nice and straight, no problems on the interstate. But stopping takes a while. I hadn't traveled 1 mile when 8 little girls ran in front of me to advertise their car wash. I was afraid I was never going to stop. Front tires were chirping. They thot it was funny. My sump knocked a bit of plywood out on the way in, otherwise lots of room, perfect fit, etc. I crisscrossed the rear straps over the frame member. Wasn't able to do that up front as one of the straps the trailer place sold me was too short. I looped them over the frame also. After my shakedown cruise everything was where I left it, straps were tight, etc. Trailer is 13" off ground at rear, 12" at front. No idea what tongue weight is. The Touareg is rated at 650 lbs tongue weight and the handbook says that what you shd aim for. We'll see how the 1300 mile round trip to NJMP goes, it will be the true test. Mike M. Edited June 25, 2011 by Kitcat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowss7 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Excellent News Mike! :hurray: I too have started to load the truck up. I still have to pick up the trailer and load the car tomorrow morning. Other than gassing up the pickup and buying ice for the cooler, I'm all set. I plan on getting there early enough to watch Karl for a session. I haven't made reservations for dinner yet. I'll hold off until we get everyone together and call before we go over. Boy are my new slicks nice and sticky:cooldude::jester: can't wait! See you tomorrow. Drive safely! Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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