The whole point

[TheDingo8MyBaby]

Hi Ron,

 

I think there is some conflicting information between your post and the Lotus 7 register, but overall it's pretty accurate. I'm not going to argue who's right because I'm not sure.

 

http://www.lotus7register.co.uk/ser2page.htm

[TLRracer]

I lived in Japan for a long time and owned a Suzuki Cappuccino while I was there. The Cappuccino, I believe, has the same 3 cylinder 660cc turbocharged engine that they will put into the new Caterham. What a fun car the Cappuccino was! It was super light (kei jidosha) and was quick too. I am sure the Caterham 160 will be a blast with that motor in it. Plus Suzuki has been making it for a long time and there are a TON of mods for it.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_Cappuccino

[Sean]

It's been dyno'd at ~74BHp at the rear wheels. So this equates to ~85BHp at the crank assuming 15% driveline losses.

 

Don't sell your car short! A 15% increase would be calculated as 74hp X 1.15 = 85hp, but to calculate a 15% loss, it would be 74hp ÷ 0.85 = 87hp.

[subtlez28]

My Classic Mini Cooper S Race Car 1310 lb, 148 BHP will lap Stratotech Motor Sport Park where I work as an instructor in 64.3 seconds, my best lap in a 550 BHP GTR at the same track in 68.5 seconds. Bottom line is in 15 laps my 148 BHP Mini will have lapped the GTR.

 

I rest my case

 

It wasnt until I became a competent driver that I learned that I didn't need insane amounts of HP. The 3-400 hp difference between my elise and vettes accounted for very little. I gained that back and more under braking. Some people get slower with more power, as they Tend to not get on the power until they are at track out.

 

Hmmm... Kind of closed minded analogies and examples shown in this thread.

 

Let me throw out mine. At my local 1.8 mile road course I raced a 02 Z28 a few years (hence the screen name). Despite its 3,600 race weight (me in it) it was a lot faster than the smaller, lighter, lower horse power cars like Miatas. An LS1 swapped, and lighter Z car was setting some of the fastest times.

 

Then along cam a Brunton Stalker, with an even more powerful LS3, and obviously carrying less weight than any other car there. It set time of day by a long shot (so now, years later, I'm building one somewhat like it)!

 

My point is light is good, but power cannot be ignored.

 

I admit I love the roar of a V-8, and am biased here.

 

How cool would it be to have a USA7s track day to sort out this inner rivalries!

Edited December 10, 2013 by subtlez28

[s2k7]

xxx

Edited January 24, 2014 by s2k7

[xcarguy]

:lurk:. . . More! More!!! . . . :lurk:

 

Anybody up for a round of Kum ba yah? :smilielol5:

[xcarguy]

Then along cam a Brunton Stalker, with an even more powerful LS3, and obviously carrying less weight than any other car there. It set time of day by a long shot (so now, years later, I'm building one somewhat like it)!

 

My point is light is good, but power cannot be ignored.

 

How cool would it be to have a USA7s track day to sort out this inner rivalries!

 

Okay, I know this has already been posted in the video section, but worth a revisit here; a V8 Stalker and a V6 Stalker on track at MSR Cresson with other Seven type cars (Caterham, Birkin, Lotus). The track is a 1.7 mile cw course with the longest straight coming in a tad over 1/4 mile at 1,460'.

 

 

[Guest Terry]

Okay, I know this has already been posted in the video section, but worth a revisit here; a V8 Stalker and a V6 Stalker on track at MSR Cresson with other Seven type cars (Caterham, Birkin, Lotus). The track is a 1.7 mile cw course with the longest straight coming in a tad over 1/4 mile at 1,460'.

 

 

 

Is this test done with the same driver, the same conditions, same tires, otherwise it worthless.:smash:

[Guest Terry]

Right watched the video.

 

The car with the stripes on the bonnet missed every apex on every corner, also the thing looks an animal even the slightest amount of throttle out of the corners and the rear is stepping out. this car is overpowered for the suspension set up. This video proves NOTHING other than that car doesn't represent a complete package.

 

What the hell do I know, have only been racing since I was 9 years old. :banghead:

[bigdog]

xcarguy,

That course was about as straight as a circuit can get. Those looked to be rather long radius corners.

 

I'll use the example of my Sumo motorcycle (Husqvarna SM610) In the really tight stuff I would either pass or be on the butt of the much more powerful sports bikes. There were more than a few sport bike pilots that would just scratch their heads when a 575CC 50HP motocross bike was hounding them in the canyons. Yes! if the road opened up they were gone.

 

I have to tell you though that after 3 years of living in Germany, going fast on an open road (autobahn) is ponderously boring. Which of course means most of the Americans over here love the autobahn as most Americans have to look up curvy back road in the dictionary. I always set the GPS to avoid the autobahns unless I'm with the wife in her 328 going somewhere. It's one reason I sold my BMW Zed 4 and bought the seven. I would rather have fun in the curves at 60MPH than just put my foot down then pat myself on the back and tell myself how cool I am because I went 160 on a straight road.

 

To each their own though.

 

I for one am glad to see Caterham offering an old school type of car along side their beasty models.

[Guest Terry]

xcarguy,

That course was about as straight as a circuit can get. Those looked to be rather long radius corners.

 

I'll use the example of my Sumo motorcycle (Husqvarna SM610) In the really tight stuff I would either pass or be on the butt of the much more powerful sports bikes. There were more than a few sport bike pilots that would just scratch their heads when a 575CC 50HP motocross bike was hounding them in the canyons. Yes! if the road opened up they were gone.

 

I have to tell you though that after 3 years of living in Germany, going fast on an open road (autobahn) is ponderously boring. Which of course means most of the Americans over here love the autobahn as most Americans have to look up curvy back road in the dictionary. I always set the GPS to avoid the autobahns unless I'm with the wife in her 328 going somewhere. It's one reason I sold my BMW Zed 4 and bought the seven. I would rather have fun in the curves at 60MPH than just put my foot down then pat myself on the back and tell myself how cool I am because I went 160 on a straight road.

 

To each their own though.

 

I for one am glad to see Caterham offering an old school type of car along side their beasty models.

 

YES. :drool:

[xcarguy]

Is this test done with the same driver, the same conditions, same tires, otherwise it worthless.:smash:

 

I didn't realize this was a test? :svengo: Actually, it was a track day for Sevens.

Edited December 11, 2013 by xcarguy

[xcarguy]

Here's another video (probably already posted elsewhere also); V8 Stalker (M-Spec) at autocross.

 

Eat up . . . :lurk:

 

[HOTTTCAR]

The car with the stripes on the bonnet missed every apex on every corner, also the thing looks an animal even the slightest amount of throttle out of the corners and the rear is stepping out. this car is overpowered for the suspension set up. This video proves NOTHING other than that car doesn't represent a complete package.

 

 

-No offence Terry but I think you missed the point of the video. The purpose was not to make light of the beginner driver of the orange Stalker missing his apex cones or his lack of control of the car. The point I think was that the Stalkers were passing every one …..some 3 times, even driven badly as you say. How the hell did that happen?

Gale

[subtlez28]

Is this test done with the same driver, the same conditions, same tires, otherwise it worthless.:smash:

 

I didn't realize this was a test? :svengo: Actually, it was a track day for Sevens.

 

-No offence Terry but I think you missed the point of the video. The purpose was not to make light of the beginner driver of the orange Stalker missing his apex cones or his lack of control of the car. The point I think was that the Stalkers were passing every one …..some 3 times, even driven badly as you say. How the hell did that happen?

Gale

 

I think the thread is summed up pretty well above.

 

Look, obviously we are all here in this 7 nitch of the car hobby because we believe lighter is better. We are just going to have to agree to disagree that more power is the answer.

 

As I admitted, I am a V-8 junkie, particularly the LS variety. I'm putting one in a seven-ish car because it is about as light, and capable a starting point as I can find in my budget range.

 

It is all a balancing act of power, weight, cost and simplicity in the end.

 

If you want to build a lighter, lower powered seven, I'm all for it. Just don't be surprised when you get some argument when you claim superiority.

 

I hope to see you at a track event when I get my heavy, powerful seven finished and sorted.

[bigdog]

I think the thread is summed up pretty well above.

 

Look, obviously we are all here in this 7 nitch of the car hobby because we believe lighter is better. We are just going to have to agree to disagree that more power is the answer.

 

As I admitted, I am a V-8 junkie, particularly the LS variety. I'm putting one in a seven-ish car because it is about as light, and capable a starting point as I can find in my budget range.

 

It is all a balancing act of power, weight, cost and simplicity in the end.

 

If you want to build a lighter, lower powered seven, I'm all for it. Just don't be surprised when you get some argument when you claim superiority.

 

I hope to see you at a track event when I get my heavy, powerful seven finished and sorted.

 

I see the issue as this. When a MANUFACTURER (a self built kit is different) becomes to narrowly focused on super fast, super light, super expensive, they run the risk of becoming a little to niche. Ferrari can get away with this as they are owned by Fiat. Fiat pays for the Ferrari looses. Most of the other popular super cars have a parent company that pays the bills as well. If those super car makers were making money because of the super fast, super light formula? Why was it necessary to sell their company to someone else? Right now Caterham is just barely making any if not loosing money. As has been pointed out. The original 7 cost $2900 in 1957 which adjusted for inflation equals $24,000 in 2012. The last time I was on the USA Cat site. The low end model was close to $30,000 all the way to the R500 at $61,000 then you still have to buy an engine/trans for them, Plus tire/wheels for the classic. So to shave 44Kgs will cost you $31,000 or $320 per pound saved. Which if you are making your living by winning races is fine. But for bragging rights at a non-professional track day! Well, Kudos to you for having the deep pockets to feed the Ego while lapping everyone. I don't say that in a pejorative manner either. Modern Caterhams are designed first and foremost for the street. Otherwise none of them would come with DOT lighting, tires.

 

So I applaud Caterham for returning to it's and Lotus' past. I believe it will be a profitable move for them. And a great way for those without deep pockets to enjoy the sheer pleasure of driving a seven, Even if it's not at racing levels of speed.

Edited December 11, 2013 by bigdog

[s2k7]

xxx

Edited January 24, 2014 by s2k7

[silverfox]

+1 got to agree with the Cats more in line with tradition - as said before, take the negine and tranny out of a Cat and it's worth frankly about $15K as a roller, give or take

[S1Steve]

Here's another video (probably already posted elsewhere also); V8 Stalker (M-Spec) at autocross.

 

Eat up . . . :lurk:

 

 

Xcarguy,

 

Hey, Pass the popcorn !!!!!!!

[Manshoon11]

ahem

 

Lotus 7 slalom - YouTube