toedrag Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 Starting from the tank, here's the fuel-rated ball valve, then a 100 micron pre-pump filter: http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=28064&g2_serialNumber=3 Side view, looking from the passenger side wheel well (half-axle removed). Note that there is still room for the components to move a bit; I'm not worried about stress cracking. http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=28062&g2_serialNumber=3 View from the cockpit, looking backwards with the seat back panel removed. The inlet to the Canton Racing canister filter is on the bottom. The outlet is on the side, facing to the right in this view. The hose then travels up to the pressure regulator. http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=28056&g2_serialNumber=3 View from the rear of the car, standing behind the fuel tank looking downwards. The return hose is the bigger one in the center. The hose going from the regulator to the engine is obstructed from view; it exits the bottom of the regulator with a 45-degree fitting to transition smoothly into the tunnel. http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=28060&g2_serialNumber=4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toedrag Posted December 13, 2014 Author Share Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) Wheels are finally on the way and should be here next Wed. I got a fantastic Black Friday deal on these; they were the only item I bought on Black Friday, in fact. Vordoven Forme 9, Hyper black color Front: 18x9.5, +22 Rear: 18x10.5, +15 The rear offset is different because the shopping list calls for an 18x11, +20 offset, but with the 10.5 width of my chosen wheel, by going with a +15 offset, it should extend only 1mm further outside than the shopping list wheel. Toyo R888 in a 315 are still spec'd to fit on a 10.5" wide wheel. http://cdn3.volusion.com/5ehx2.gysj4/v/vspfiles/photos/VDFR9-7225HB14-2T.jpg?1416331090 Received & ordered more electrical parts. Started mocking up my placement of ECU & fuse panels. Need to do some minor surgery to the engine harness to adjust a few wires. I also received these little buggers, about which I have to say I'm pretty excited. (Who knew I'd ever be excited about fuses?). They are called "terminal fuses", and they are fuses that attach directly to the battery. I'm also putting one on the alternator terminal. Single & Dual available: They use these little cubical slow-blow fuses from 30A to 300A, and you can't get 'em any closer to the sources of power than right on the terminals: I'm using a 250A fuse for the starter and a 50A fuse for the remainder of the electrical system (one placed at the battery and another at the alternator). The slow-blow nature of these fuses means that they will accept surge currents for a specified amount of time, which depends on how much higher the surge is vs the rated current; a graph showing current vs time is available on the mfg site. For example, the 50A fuse shouldn't ever blow at 50A and will allow ~130% (65A) for 1000 seconds (16 minutes) before it blows. The Alternator in this system can only produce 70A, and if my electrical loads have been calculated properly, I should come in well under 50A during normal operation. I'd barely hit 50A if literally every piece of electronics was turned on simultaneously. For the 250A starter fuse, it'll allow 200% for up to 10 seconds. That should be more than enough time for the engine to start up. -- On the topic of ground distribution, Ron Francis has some good wiring tips here, where he mentions that the conductivity of steel is only about 20% of copper. Being a data driven individual, I had to fact-check this stat, and it's reasonably close to accurate. Ron F's point is that aluminum is a much better electrical conductor than steel, which means that given the choice between using the chassis as a huge ground bus or using the engine block, I'll use the engine block. It will act as my main ground distribution hub with a single large gauge wire going back to the battery. The various smaller gauge ground wires in the system will then terminate on the block or to a ground bus bar in the rear of the car that has an appropriately sized wire back to the block. Edited December 13, 2014 by toedrag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcarguy Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 . . . . Received & ordered more electrical parts . . . . a graph showing current vs time is available on the mfg site. Brit, Shame on you. You purchase all those goodies and then mention the mfg. without including a link where we might contemplate trying to outspend you. :toetap05: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toedrag Posted December 13, 2014 Author Share Posted December 13, 2014 Brit, Shame on you. You purchase all those goodies and then mention the mfg. without including a link where we might contemplate trying to outspend you. :toetap05: Ha, sorry about that. Blue Sea is the mfg Terminal Fuse Holders: [/url]https://www.bluesea.com/products/category/Fuse_Blocks/Terminal_Fuse_Blocks Terminal Fuses, these are also known as Marine Rated Battery Fuses (MRBF): https://www.bluesea.com/products/category/Fuses/Marine_Rated_Battery_Fuses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOTTTCAR Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Which battery isolator did you use? Gale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toedrag Posted December 13, 2014 Author Share Posted December 13, 2014 Which battery isolator did you use? Gale Hmm, I hadn't planned on using one; I always thought they were more for systems with multiple batteries, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOTTTCAR Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 True ......but routing those heavy guage wires up to the cut off switch is time consuming and a PITA. Gale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toedrag Posted December 13, 2014 Author Share Posted December 13, 2014 True ......but routing those heavy guage wires up to the cut off switch is time consuming and a PITA. Gale Yeah, I went back & forth on the cut-off switch idea, and at the moment, I don't plan to use one. If/when I ever get into an environment that requires one, I'll do it then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderbrake Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 On the topic of ground distribution, Ron Francis has some good wiring tips here, where he mentions that the conductivity of steel is only about 20% of copper. Being a data driven individual, I had to fact-check this stat, and it's reasonably close to accurate. Ron F's point is that aluminum is a much better electrical conductor than steel, which means that given the choice between using the chassis as a huge ground bus or using the engine block, I'll use the engine block. It will act as my main ground distribution hub with a single large gauge wire going back to the battery. The various smaller gauge ground wires in the system will then terminate on the block or to a ground bus bar in the rear of the car that has an appropriately sized wire back to the block. I totally agree. I consider myself a "ground fanatic'. I used the engine block as the ground, and ran separate ground wires of the appropriate gauge to the headlights, fuel pump and brake/tail lights. I also ran a separate ground wire from my speedometer magnetic pickup on the half shaft. All these grounds terminated a a singe spot on the rear of the engine. So far, no ground problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevs Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) Using a wire for a longer ground than just going to the closest point of the chassis is not necessarily better. You’re limiting your current flow to the size of that wire for that length. This has more resistance to flow than a gigantic lower conducting chassis "wire". Your also making potential differences of your grounds. The chassis will all be the same, but each length of ground wire will have a different resistance and therefore a different voltage due to the tiny resistance of the wire. The more current you’re trying to push through it, the worse it is. If you were going between parts that were bolted together and/or separated by paint with only fasteners that break through and conduct, it might be different. For example, you might not want to ground something in your door to the door, or to the hatch of the trunk etc. (not that we have those). Your chassis is a single ground point and a massive "wire". Take your ohm meter and measure from one end of the chassis to another. You will measure near zero. The difference is you’re not pushing the electrons down a wire; they can go over the entire surface of the chassis. They will choose their own shortest path. If you were running audio equipment, it is a little different. You have to be very careful of potential difference so you don't get a ground loop that induces noise. You would want to ground all those to the same point on the chassis with as short of wires as possible. The more distance between the components grounds, the more potential for “antennas” and voltage differences due to different lengths of wires etc. Your also not passing data through your chassis, if you were, then you would wanted twisted pairs, ground jacketed wires etc.... Simply supplying power to a headlight or a fuel pump won't really matter. Also, the longer you make your battery ground wire, the more your restricting things. Getting it to the chassis in as short of a piece as possible is a good thing. You also have to consider that many of your electronic devices are regulating the voltage themselves. They don't need the full voltage of the battery/alternator. They will regulate down to 12V, 5V, or whatever they need and "ignore" anything higher. Anyway, my point was, there is no need to over complicate it on a car. Most/all ground problems are caused by the terminal used to connect to the chassis or an issue with the wire being used, not the chassis itself being used as the ground. People that have engine problems usually do not have an adequate connection to the ground (chassis). They did not remove the paint, use a heavy enough gauge wire, etc. Adding more and longer wires to the system actually adds more potential for problems. It also adds weight. Of course there are many ways to skin a cat..so to speak. The shorter the wires to the chassis the better. A wire won't conduct as well as the entire chassis even if copper is a better conductor, unless you way oversize all your wires, and then you will have vibration and mechanical issues to deal with over time and create more ground problems than solving. Keeping it simple and putting your terminals on correctly and sizing the wire used is most important. Oh, another thing to note is that if your going to use bus bars in the rear and then connect up with a larger wire. Every connection point adds resistance and a potential failure point. In the manufacturing world, these would all be six sigma quality no no's. All of that will not be any better than a 3 inch wire right to the chassis, and more potential for problems. Also, don't forget that your engine is moving and vibrating. Making your grounds all go to this vibrating monster is not necessarily good. It will work I suppose, but every car I have ever worked on grounds the engine to the chassis, not the other way around. I have worked on about every brand of car at some point and all those engineers must know something. I do have an electronics degree....I will be using the shortest wires to the chassis for ground points. I am not completely pulling this out of thin air for the most part Edited December 13, 2014 by jevs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevs Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 True ......but routing those heavy guage wires up to the cut off switch is time consuming and a PITA. Gale Please elaborate on what your doing with a battery isolator? Are you using a lower current handling switch with smaller wires to turn off this isolator or something? I cannot comment properly without knowing, but this method might not be "race legal"...of course I am just speculating since I don't know what you have there. I don't believe you can use secondary devices like relays etc since it is not as safe as a 100% direct mechanical disconnect at the cutoff switch. My plan is to put the cutoff switch in the dash on the passenger side which is right behind the battery. This is not perfect. It would be better on the outside of the car within reach of the driver, but this is pretty darn close to good. I have seen others do this. You can still reach over as the driver, and it is just inches from the outside for a safety worker to get it. Of course I will have no roof or doors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toedrag Posted December 13, 2014 Author Share Posted December 13, 2014 Using a wire for a longer ground than just going to the closest point of the chassis is not necessarily better. You’re limiting your current flow to the size of that wire for that length. This has more resistance to flow than a gigantic lower conducting chassis "wire". Your also making potential differences of your grounds. The chassis will all be the same, but each length of ground wire will have a different resistance and therefore a different voltage due to the tiny resistance of the wire. The more current you’re trying to push through it, the worse it is. If you were going between parts that were bolted together and/or separated by paint with only fasteners that break through and conduct, it might be different. For example, you might not want to ground something in your door to the door, or to the hatch of the trunk etc. (not that we have those). Your chassis is a single ground point and a massive "wire". Take your ohm meter and measure from one end of the chassis to another. You will measure near zero. The difference is you’re not pushing the electrons down a wire; they can go over the entire surface of the chassis. They will choose their own shortest path. If you were running audio equipment, it is a little different. You have to be very careful of potential difference so you don't get a ground loop that induces noise. You would want to ground all those to the same point on the chassis with as short of wires as possible. The more distance between the components grounds, the more potential for “antennas” and voltage differences due to different lengths of wires etc. Your also not passing data through your chassis, if you were, then you would wanted twisted pairs, ground jacketed wires etc.... Simply supplying power to a headlight or a fuel pump won't really matter. Also, the longer you make your battery ground wire, the more your restricting things. Getting it to the chassis in as short of a piece as possible is a good thing. You also have to consider that many of your electronic devices are regulating the voltage themselves. They don't need the full voltage of the battery/alternator. They will regulate down to 12V, 5V, or whatever they need and "ignore" anything higher. Anyway, my point was, there is no need to over complicate it on a car. Most/all ground problems are caused by the terminal used to connect to the chassis or an issue with the wire being used, not the chassis itself being used as the ground. People that have engine problems usually do not have an adequate connection to the ground (chassis). They did not remove the paint, use a heavy enough gauge wire, etc. Adding more and longer wires to the system actually adds more potential for problems. It also adds weight. Of course there are many ways to skin a cat..so to speak. The shorter the wires to the chassis the better. A wire won't conduct as well as the entire chassis even if copper is a better conductor, unless you way oversize all your wires, and then you will have vibration and mechanical issues to deal with over time and create more ground problems than solving. Keeping it simple and putting your terminals on correctly and sizing the wire used is most important. Oh, another thing to note is that if your going to use bus bars in the rear and then connect up with a larger wire. Every connection point adds resistance and a potential failure point. In the manufacturing world, these would all be six sigma quality no no's. All of that will not be any better than a 3 inch wire right to the chassis, and more potential for problems. Also, don't forget that your engine is moving and vibrating. Making your grounds all go to this vibrating monster is not necessarily good. It will work I suppose, but every car I have ever worked on grounds the engine to the chassis, not the other way around. I have worked on about every brand of car at some point and all those engineers must know something. I do have an electronics degree....I will be using the shortest wires to the chassis for ground points. I am not completely pulling this out of thin air for the most part Thx, Jevs. Food for thought, for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOTTTCAR Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Jevs It is basicly a 12 v 200 to 500 amp normally open contractor to disconnect the battery totally from everything except the ECM. It is controlled by the master switch which you can put any where you feel is appropriate. Gale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOTTTCAR Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 My plan is to put the cutoff switch in the dash on the passenger side which is right behind the battery. This is not perfect. It would be better on the outside of the car within reach of the driver, but this is pretty darn close to good. I have seen others do this. You can still reach over as the driver, and it is just inches from the outside for a safety worker to get it. Of course I will have no roof or doors John I did it your way on the last two Stalkers. Nothing wrong with it. It works great. The isolator is simple and allows shorter high guage wires, if its near the battery, and slightly less resistance, possibly. I dont know how it meshes with race rules however . gale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toedrag Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 Slight delay in completing the parking brake. The cable bracket in the IPSCO kit had the wrong thread pitch, which I didn't realize until too late. IPSCO sent replacements quickly, but I had to send one of the Lokar sheaths off to get the fitting replaced since it too was trashed. Been working more in my indoor laboratory on prototyping various parts of my dash/gauge design. Picked up my modified seat brackets tonight. These started out life as sidemount brackets from Planted Technology, but since I & wifey wanted a little more recline in the seat, my fabrication guy welded some extensions. The extensions have 2 pieces: the first is butt-welded on the top of the existing bracket, and the second is a lap weld on top of both the existing & new piece on top. Then, he machined the slots like the originals. http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=28070&g2_serialNumber=3 ECU & ECU fuse panel mounted, along with my template for my chassis fuse/relay panels: http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=28074&g2_serialNumber=3 Holes cut: http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=28078&g2_serialNumber=3 Fuse/relay panels mounted: http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=28080&g2_serialNumber=3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toedrag Posted December 26, 2014 Author Share Posted December 26, 2014 Finally had time to start hacking up the engine wiring harness. First up, some changes to the T56 connections: had to add 12" extensions to the Reverse Lockout solenoid & Reverse Gear sensor wires because they simply wouldn't reach where they needed to go. Oh, and this wire stripping gun is amazing. I don't know how I haven't owned one of these before now - $9 at my local electronics shop. It automatically adjusts to varying wire & insulation thicknesses, up to about a 14 gauge GXL. It's so much easier than the traditional wire stripping method, both for wire stripping in situ or on the bench http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=28108&g2_serialNumber=3 The Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) connector on my T56 Magnum is a Ford type, so I had to cut off the GM connector and wire in the Ford pigtail, which was included in the transmission box from American Powertrain. It doesn't matter which ECU wire goes to which pigtail wire. Yes, I soldered it :-) http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=28110&g2_serialNumber=3 Next, based on my application & wiring design, I made some changes to the fuse panel included with the Current Performance Wiring kit. As I was poking around, I noticed two potential issues: The purple starter solenoid wire had been pinched against one of the legs of the base. The insulation has some slight cosmetic abrasions. I'm not sure if this would have lead to a bigger issue later on. I addressed it by moving things around a bit after opening up the split loom & wiring bundle. There is a 16 gauge wire that feeds +12V to some bussed terminals which then feeds +12V to the Cooling Fan, Fuel Pump, and ECU. With my cooling fan & fuel pump, that's 18 simultaneous amps during normal operation (as read from their respective specifications). I really don't know what the ECU current draw should be, maybe just 2A or less? That's ~20 amps on a 16 gauge wire, which to me, seems like too much load. This ampacity chart identifies that the highest constant ampacity for 16 gauge is 22 amps in open air; I would have expected a 12 gauge on this feed wire. As an aside, I think the currently installed fuses for these items are 30A (fan), 20 (fuel pump), and 10 (ECU pwr). I suspect the feed wire would melt before the 30A fuse blew. To address this, at the very least, I'll just change out the fuses for more appropriately rated ones. I would prefer to add another jumper wire to the bussed terminals, but I can't figure out how to remove those darn things. It's not just a single terminal, which I can remove with ease. In this case, three terminals are connected together. I pulled out the plastic retainer and used my terminal removal tool on all three, but they won't budge. I don't really want to force it. I'll ask Current Performance Wiring about both the 16 gauge feed wire and how to remove these bussed terminals. http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=28112&g2_serialNumber=2 Lastly, here is a useful tool for finding wires that I've used countless times when running data cables & other wires in my house. It's called a toner or tracer. The transmitting end attaches to the wire and sends a small signal that can be detected wirelessly with the receiver. It beeps louder the closer the tip is to the target wire. This time, I used it to find the Oil Pressure sensor wire in the bundle. Both the transmitter & receiver are battery operated, which makes them highly portable. http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=28116&g2_serialNumber=3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcarguy Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Brit, Where did you get the handy dandy wire locator tool. Must have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowss7 Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 This explains why Caterhams cost so much. The level of skill and detail that you have to complete this build just blows me away. I have no skill and it only took 80 hours of wrenching to put my Caterham kit together. The hardest part was figuring out which bolts to use as most of them came in one pack marked "miscellaneous" Hats off to your Skill and attention to detail. :flag::flag::cheers: Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toedrag Posted December 26, 2014 Author Share Posted December 26, 2014 Brit, Where did you get the handy dandy wire locator tool. Must have one. I inherited mine Here's a used set on ebay for $30 with 1 hour remaining: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Progressive-Electronics-200EP-Inductive-Amplifier-and-77HP-Tracer-2http-cgi5-e-/151523452931?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2347806803 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toedrag Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) This explains why Caterhams cost so much. The level of skill and detail that you have to complete this build just blows me away. I have no skill and it only took 80 hours of wrenching to put my Caterham kit together. The hardest part was figuring out which bolts to use as most of them came in one pack marked "miscellaneous" Hats off to your Skill and attention to detail. Tom Thx for your kind words! --- Regarding wheels, I have been going back and forth on the hubcentric wheel & spacer topic. After receiving my lug nuts and attempting a front wheel install w/o any centering rings (bleh), I decided to buy front & rear centering rings and new rear wheel spacers that are hubcentric. I've used plastic-type centering rings on a previous 4k lb car on the track, and since they held up fine on that car, I'm not worried about them melting on this one. For those unfamiliar to what I'm referring, the situation on my Stalker is this: Fronts: The front hub has a center bore of 67.1mm, but the center bore of the wheel is 73.1mm. That's 6mm of slop that I'd have to center using the 5 lug nuts...or buy the proper centering rings. I didn't enjoy the act of using the lug nuts to center the wheel, so I bought some plastic centering rings with ID 67.1 & OD 73.1. Rear The rear hub has a center bore of 70.3mm (yes, it's bigger than the fronts). The rears also require a 1.5" (38mm) spacer. The original spacer I bought has a center bore of 74mm and also has no lip for the wheel; it's totally flat on the face. Meaning, that's 7mm of slop between the hub & wheel, and another amount of slop between the spacer & wheel. I opted to buy another set of rear spacers that have a center bore of 70.3mm so they'll fit snugly on the hub, and they have a lip on the wheel side where I'll use another set of centering rings that have an ID of 70.3mm and OD of 73.1mm. Both seats (Momo Supercup) are now installed. The driver's side has plenty room since the space is 19.5" wide; the passenger side has very little clearance on either side since the space only 19" wide, but the seat does fit. I guess the larger dimensions of the XL allow the seat to be more forward than other versions. I'm 6' with a 32" inseam. My seating position allows for about 120 deg bend in the legs at the knee with feet barely touching the pedals, which then leaves about 3" between the back of the seat and the panel behind it. I might be able use it as a small storage space; I thought about using it for the battery, but decided against that. Both seats are on Sabelt universal sliders and also use the previously mentioned modified Planted Technology sidemount brackets. Having the seats installed now lets me make progress in other areas, which is welcomed progress. Also now apparent is that the seats' harness holes & my shoulders are too high above the stock harness mounting point. Meaning, another addition to the welding list: two horizontal harness bars behind the seats' harness holes: http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=28174&g2_serialNumber=2 http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=28183&g2_serialNumber=3 I cut the steering shaft to its final size and had my welder attach the quick release hub adapter to the shaft. It's welded all way around, and he added two rosette welds on opposite sides of the assembly instead of pinning it. The way he made the rosette weld was to drill through the adapter wall and then partially drilled the wall of the shaft to only slightly dimple it. Then, he gradually filled in the dimple & hole. Only the force of Thor's hammer will unseat the adapter from the shaft. The remainder of the steering shaft assembly is called out in this earlier post on this thread http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=28185&g2_serialNumber=3 http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=28187&g2_serialNumber=3 Edited December 31, 2014 by toedrag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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