Moving Seat Rails - Caterham SV

[ukchris]

Well, it's finally here so the real questions begin, I figure it's probably better to have separate topics as separate posts so first, seat positions.

 

I have two Caterham cloth seats and a Kirkey, the Kirkey isn't going to work, clearly I'm broader than the original owner, might consider getting a wider one later.

 

The standard seats though are installed yet the passenger seat slides back a good couple of inches further than the drivers seat. Clearly the rails are bolted to the floor but during assembly is the position set or should I be able to unbolt them, move them back and fasten them in again giving me more leg room?

[ukchris]

This is what I have going on... the submarine belt for the harness is bolted in behind the rails, I can clearly see there are alternate mounting holes but obviously the bracket isn't going anywhere while the harness belts are bolted in there. Can I / should I move where/how the belts are fastened in? The assembly guide looks very similar to what I have but it seems to eat up a lot of leg space that I use.

 

http://www.usa7s.net/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=13958&stc=1

[xcarguy]

Do you,have dual sub belts? If so, can you move those mounts onboard?

[ukchris]

Do you,have dual sub belts? If so, can you move those mounts onboard?

 

Humm... so many terms!

 

there is is an anchor like that on both rails, that belt joins and has a buckle that comes up through an ugly hole in the seat cushion. Left belt is secured shoulder and side as is the right which has a five point buckle. Does that answer it? I *think* you’re asking if I have five or six points?

 

id be quite happy with a four point harness like I had in my last car, can I safely just remove the anti-sub belt?

[coffee break]

At the risk of hi-jacking, I have a question.

I have the original bench seat configuration and 4 point belts. I am somewhat concerned about the lap belts not staying in place and riding up. Is this acceptable for track use?

Did anyone else think it looked weird that Mike (Wheeler Dealer) was driving a 7 with the 4 point belt latch almost on his chest?

[FE07]

The risk of any four point harness is of submarining below the belt in a forward collision. Some (all?) Schroth harnesses with ASM technology being the exception.

 

For track use you want to have at least a 5 point harness. The sub strap keeps the lap belt down around your pelvis where it should be.

I have 6 points in my car which is a formula car harness. Eliminates any metal in the uhh....private parts. Much more comfortable and safe.

 

To the original poster- my subs are mounted on plates along with the laps where the original laps from Caterham were mounted. Not screwed through the floor.

 

Jim

[xcarguy]

Humm... so many terms!

 

there is is an anchor like that on both rails, that belt joins and has a buckle that comes up through an ugly hole in the seat cushion. Left belt is secured shoulder and side as is the right which has a five point buckle. Does that answer it? I *think* you’re asking if I have five or six points?

 

id be quite happy with a four point harness like I had in my last car, can I safely just remove the anti-sub belt?

 

 

Regardless of five point or six point (all terms aside), can you move the mounting points for the belts and allow the seat more travel?

[ukchris]

Regardless of five point or six point (all terms aside), can you move the mounting points for the belts and allow the seat more travel?

 

For now I took the lower harness out and moved the rails back. I’m hesitant to drill holes, there’s a steel bracket runs underneath on the underside of the car that the seat rails bolt to. To anchor the belts I think I’d either have to fasten them to one of the seat bolts or extend a bar across, attached to the current bracing bars then drill through inboard of the rails.

 

I need to look at how the Kirkey rails fit and whether the seat would slide beyond the end of the rail (over the belt mounting bolts). If so I might just get a wider Kirkey and go that route. The cloth seats are pretty faded and one has a hole cut for the sub belt.

[JohnCh]

Belt routing is critical. It's worth some time going to Schroth's site and digging around in their tech articles, instructions, and crash videos. These provide the safe mounting range for each belt based on type (e.g. 5-point vs. 6-point) and will help you determine if surgery is required. One of the big dangers of running a 4-point (Schroth ASM excepted) is that the lap belt positon rides up to your abdomen and crushes internal organs in a collision. Properly mounting the lap and crotch straps keep the lap belt in the correct position at the pelvis and minimizes this type of trauma.

 

-John

[John B]

Hi Chris,

My 2003 SV is sitting in my garage so I went out and had a look at how the lower harnesses are mounted for you. They are not mounted flat to the floor as yours are, but rather laterally to the structural frame rails on either side of the seats. I'm 6'3" and have more than enough legroom with the seats back all the way. I hope this helps.

[ukchris]

Hi Chris,

My 2003 SV is sitting in my garage so I went out and had a look at how the lower harnesses are mounted for you. They are not mounted flat to the floor as yours are, but rather laterally to the structural frame rails on either side of the seats. I'm 6'3" and have more than enough legroom with the seats back all the way. I hope this helps.

 

Thanks John, is that the belt that comes across your thigh or up between the legs? It looks like that is the join where the back meets the base of the seat and the belt comes up and over the seat?

[xcarguy]

Belt routing is critical. It's worth some time going to Schroth's site and digging around in their tech articles, instructions, and crash videos. These provide the safe mounting range for each belt based on type (e.g. 5-point vs. 6-point) and will help you determine if surgery is required. One of the big dangers of running a 4-point (Schroth ASM excepted) is that the lap belt positon rides up to your abdomen and crushes internal organs in a collision. Properly mounting the lap and crotch straps keep the lap belt in the correct position at the pelvis and minimizes this type of trauma.

 

-John

 

 

Ditto on this. Belt position/routing is paramount for safety.

 

Hi Chris,

My 2003 SV is sitting in my garage so I went out and had a look at how the lower harnesses are mounted for you. They are not mounted flat to the floor as yours are, but rather laterally to the structural frame rails on either side of the seats. I'm 6'3" and have more than enough legroom with the seats back all the way. I hope this helps.

 

i want to clarify. I’m discussing/suggesting moving the mounting points of the sub belts only, not the lap belt. Moving the sub belt mounting points inward from behind the frame rails will ‘hopefully’ allow adequate rearward seat travel. Moving the sub belt mounting points inward will still allow for the sub belt to thread up through the front of the seat (as they now do) and will still serve the purpose of keeping the lap belt on and around the pelvic area.

[ukchris]

i want to clarify. I’m discussing/suggesting moving the mounting points of the sub belts only, not the lap belt. Moving the sub belt mounting points inward from behind the frame rails will ‘hopefully’ allow adequate rearward seat travel. Moving the sub belt mounting points inward will still allow for the sub belt to thread up through the front of the seat (as they now do) and will still serve the purpose of keeping the lap belt on and around the pelvic area.

 

This is exactly my issue, on the underside of the floorpan there are two bars running front to back aligned with the seat runners, the runners and the sub belts are bolted through the floor and through these on the underside. The mount for the sub is behind the rail so I can't move it back without removing the bolt for the sub belts.

 

So, I think my options are....

 

1. Bolt through the runner, the sub belt bracket, floor and underside bracket, this seems to be questionable at best.

2. Drill new holes in the floor for the sub belt mount inside the rails and add a similar strengthener underneath running between the ones for the runners and attach the sub belts an inch or two further in.

3. Dispense with the sub belt.

 

Seems option 2 is the sensible one, basically all it would mean is that the bolts for the sub belts are an inch or two further in, does that make sense?

[John B]

Thanks John, is that the belt that comes across your thigh or up between the legs? It looks like that is the join where the back meets the base of the seat and the belt comes up and over the seat?

 

Chris, Those are the lap belt mountings. The belts from there go up and over the lower portion of the seat and join to buckle at your waist. My car only has a 4-point harness (2 belt, 2 shoulder), no anti-submarine harness between my legs.

[ukchris]

Hi Chris,

My 2003 SV is sitting in my garage so I went out and had a look at how the lower harnesses are mounted for you. They are not mounted flat to the floor as yours are, but rather laterally to the structural frame rails on either side of the seats. I'm 6'3" and have more than enough legroom with the seats back all the way. I hope this helps.

 

Got it, thanks, mine are very similar, it's the one underneath that's proving troublesome.

[xcarguy]

Chris, Those are the lap belt mountings. The belts from there go up and over the lower portion of the seat and join to buckle at your waist. My car only has a 4-point harness (2 belt, 2 shoulder), no anti-submarine harness between my legs.

 

 

John,

 

Chris’s car has a six-point setup. The sub belt mounting points (located directly behind the seat tracks) are the issue.

[xcarguy]

This is exactly my issue, on the underside of the floorpan there are two bars running front to back aligned with the seat runners, the runners and the sub belts are bolted through the floor and through these on the underside. The mount for the sub is behind the rail so I can't move it back without removing the bolt for the sub belts.

 

So, I think my options are....

 

1. Bolt through the runner, the sub belt bracket, floor and underside bracket, this seems to be questionable at best.

2. Drill new holes in the floor for the sub belt mount inside the rails and add a similar strengthener underneath running between the ones for the runners and attach the sub belts an inch or two further in.

3. Dispense with the sub belt.

 

Seems option 2 is the sensible one, basically all it would mean is that the bolts for the sub belts are an inch or two further in, does that make sense?

 

 

You nailed it it with option two. DO NOT REMOVE THE SUB BELTS!