Ferrino Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 I'm putting a 2.0 Duratec into an S3 chassis with no existing fuel system. I would like to use a Caterham tank and the current injection version uses a Ford pump assembly, which drops in from the top and also includes the sender. Does anyone have this tank/pump config? My understanding is that these pumps have an internal regulator and therefore there is no external return line - they just return within the tank. And consequently they just use a single supply line through the tunnel and to a "dead head" fuel rail (as I think is standard on a factory Duratec rail). What's confusing is there are different pumps advertised on the Caterham website, with very little info. And there is some info out there that suggests some of them are regulated electronically, by a module that plugs in. To confuse things further, there is an in-line/external regulator used on the CSR. If anyone has any info on the appropriate Ford in-tank pump to use with a 2.0 Duratec (on throttle bodies), please chime in! I appreciate I could use a lift-pump/swirl-pot/HP-pump system, but I'd prefer the cleaner in-tank install. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wemtd Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 External lump with return line/pressure regulator in my Birkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papak Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) The Duratec fuel rail has a return fitting on the end. I capped mine and run it as a “dead head” as you describe with no problem. Find a fuel rail that doesn’t have the pulse dampener. It’s a pain to plug and looks ugly in the finished car. I went the swirl pot route but may modify my tank opening to accept an integral pump in the future. The Duratecs require 42-43 psi at the rail. Either use new injectors or have the old ones cleaned and recalibrated. It really makes a difference. Edited September 6, 2019 by papak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papak Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 I use a Facet to fill the swirl pot and a Waldron 392 for high pressure. I route the excess from the fuel regulator to the swirl pot as well with a return from the top of the swirl pot to the fuel tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrino Posted September 6, 2019 Author Share Posted September 6, 2019 Thanks. All the factory rails I've looked at on 2.0 Duratecs have the "dead head" configuration, with just an inlet and no outlet. The only variation I've seen is that some have a port in the center of the rail for a fuel pressure sensor. I'm thinking it would be a good idea to log fuel pressure at the rail with a "dead head" setup, since the regulator (in my case) will be a long way from the rail (in the tank). I'm currently figuring out the appropriate in-tank pump to use and will report back. Caterham has been using in-tank/internally regulated pumps on the Duratec for a while now. The Duratec fuel rail has a return fitting on the end. I capped mine and run it as a “dead head” as you describe with no problem. Find a fuel rail that doesn’t have the pulse dampener. It’s a pain to plug and looks ugly in the finished car. I went the swirl pot route but may modify my tank opening to accept an integral pump in the future. The Duratecs require 42-43 psi at the rail. Either use new injectors or have the old ones cleaned and recalibrated. It really makes a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1turbofocus Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 I would go with the return fuel system , much easier to use , any pump that flows 250-300 lph will work under 300whp , use a regulator to set your PSI and your on your way Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papak Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 Depending on the motor mounts, you could experience a fair amount of vibration in the gauge mounted directly on the rail. It will also pose a clearance issue with the bonnet. I use an inline mount (Earls, Summit) on the supply line as it exits the tunnel and comes up to the rail. Most of the gauges are fluid damped as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 I'm using a slightly modified factory rail (AN fitting brazed onto inlet end) which includes a schrader valve. Simply screw on a test gauge when you want to check fuel pressure. Very easy to do and eliminates additional fittings and failure points. -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrino Posted September 9, 2019 Author Share Posted September 9, 2019 I capped mine and run it as a “dead head” as you describe with no problem. The main objection I've seen to the "dead head" config is the risk of vapor lock from the fuel getting hot sitting in the rail. Any issues with this at all? The Duratecs require 42-43 psi at the rail. I believe the in-tank pump I'm planning to use is regulated to 3 bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrino Posted September 9, 2019 Author Share Posted September 9, 2019 For those of you running external regulators, are they vacuum-referenced? In most setups I've seen, the vacuum port is just left open to atmosphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceBe Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 For those of you running external regulators, are they vacuum-referenced? In most setups I've seen, the vacuum port is just left open to atmosphere. Leave it open to atmosphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceBe Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Current Caterham fuel systems are electronically regulated. The large sender assembly in new tanks anticipates the presence of the regulator module. We would need to do a bit of digging, but it's possible that the pre-2015 sender (still large diameter) would utilize a standard external regulator, thus allowing you to use one of the newer large-sender tanks. CSR and older Caterham sender configurations are problematic, as the sender unit is unobtainium. If you had an older standard tank, we could provide an uprated pump for that, which would basically just install into the sender. -Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dallasdude Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Leave it open to atmosphere. If you are running ITB's you don't have much choice since you don't have much of a vacuum source. If you have a throttle body, hook it up to intake vacuum, it will reduce fuel pressure slightly at idle and make injector sizing less of an issue. You can be a little large and still have some latitude at idle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrino Posted November 12, 2019 Author Share Posted November 12, 2019 Thanks all. I've decided to go with the "early/pre-2015" Sigma/Duratec setup that Caterham uses and appears to have served them well. This employs a Ford fuel pump & sender combo, which is internally regulated (not electronically, like the later design) and return-less. I will then use the OEM return-less Ford fuel rail to suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceBe Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 If you are running ITB's you don't have much choice since you don't have much of a vacuum source. If you have a throttle body, hook it up to intake vacuum, it will reduce fuel pressure slightly at idle and make injector sizing less of an issue. You can be a little large and still have some latitude at idle. Careful with that, especially with track cars. If you don't have full control over the engine management, and are over-fueling through larger injectors and/or elevated fuel pressure, do the homework and instrumented testing (e.g. wide-band) before scaling fuel pressure. We've seen failures associated with the accumulation of momentary lean conditions during tip-in/tip-out, and part throttle (higher vacuum). FWIW, -Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky-7 Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Hi, I recently finished building my 2018 280S so I checked the parts lists. According to my list, the fuel pump for both the Sigma and Duratec are the same. Stock Code # 36T004A Bin # OD1 that's how it's shown on my parts list, if it's not the actual number I'm sure someone at Caterham can get it for you. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceBe Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 As a Caterham dealer, we can source the assembly. Ferrino is on the right track. -Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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