Anyone read the latest Grassroots Motorsports? 7 vs Atom...

[Kitcat]

If Derek Whitis brings an Atom, it will be the world's fastest, most well-sorted Atom. He seems to have a full time crew of mechanics, a tractor trailer rig, and cubic racing bucks. His Noble is the fastest, most track-ready out there. It was hitting about 170 mph on the VIR North Course's fastest stretch at a NASA Time Attack event recently, and was banned because it was overtaking the other cars in his class at unsafe speeds. So if he brings an Atom, my money is on him (But I will be rooting for the 7's).

[7evin]

I have to agree with you about Derek, on top of all of that he is a really nice guy. But, as we experienced this year, HP is a friend and foe.

It will tear up more things than you can shake a wrench at. Over a 7 day, 4000 plus miles, sometimes 3 different tracks in one day, things

will start to unravel. Of course Derek and his crew can keep even an M5 BMW on the track with all-thread and super glue. It shall be a great

challenge to try and keep up with him..... FUN FUN FUN.:hurray:

[slngsht]

Curious about the Atom... how's the aerodynamics in terms of downforce?

[Keith]

Aerodynamics - ha They're as good as a Seven. Or maybe not, there's a lot more scaffolding out in the breeze and a larger frontal area. But downforce is not on the menu. The Atom guys are messing around with wings, side panels and the like but generally they're not aerodynamic at all.

 

I'll see if I can get another 7 invitation to Atomfest. They're being very welcoming, although the fellow who extended the invitation did know both Bill and I.

 

A 500 hp Atom is not a typical Atom, that's for sure!

[JBH]

A few comments:

 

The Aerial would be street legal in NC. I have seen one tagged and titled. My SLR is also tagged and titled in NC despite not having a windshield or wipers, so that is not a barrier. Oddly, the toughest thing was the license plate light, but that's another story.

 

I have followed and ridden in an Atom on the track. My car was quicker through the turns, slower on the straights. I attribute this to a lower center of gravity in the SLR, more predictable handing in the SLR, a difference in weight, and a somewhat more timid driver of the Atom. That said, I think the Aerial has lots of potential to be fast.

 

I have to confess, I do not like the openess of the Atom. I felt vulnerable, even with arm restraints. It's probably a psychological thing more than anything else. I also felt like the rollbars were to short. That's not to say I don't also have issues with the SLR with respect to protection against with side impact

 

The Atom appeared to be well assembled with very good build quality. For $70K - 80K, it better be pretty damn nice. Just on that basis, it seems a little unfair to try to compare it to Sevens. At that kind of money there are many interesting options (Corvettes, 996 GT3, M3, Viper, Noble, etc. ). I don't think I would ever pick an Atom over one of those alternatives unless I already owned one of each. Why anyone would characterize the Aerial as the ultimate track car is something I don't understand. Again, for that kind of money I can get two nice FSCCAs that will blow right past the Atom, be less expensive to operate and maintain and have a better resale value when I want to move on to something else.

[Maverick1]

Hello gentlemen. Since I am an Atom owner I thought I might chime in on this conversation. From a lot of your posts it sounds like there is a little jealously out there especially since Brammo has made a few substantial price increases which is pricing the Atom out of many peoples dreams.

I am a track rookie and have never driven a seven so I can't comment on which is the better track car.

We should always remember that we are always biased about certain cars depending on which one we own.

You guys keep harping on the GRM article which I have not read but no doubt puts the Caterham in the brightest light. Remember one artilce does not make it written in stone. I am sure that there are lots of articles out there where the Atom comes out on top. Remember one article.

You must admit one thing for sure....the Atom is the looker of the two...

I purchased my Atom before the price increases so it works out better for me on the resale side of things. Paid around $53,000 for the 245hp car. My car now would cost around $68,700 so I don't think I will loose any money if I ever decide to sell.

I would really like to test drive a Caterham CSR 260 and have read up on the one off CSR X330 which sounds like an amazing piece of work. Unfortunately if they ever decided to make the X330 it would not doubt come in around the $100,000 US mark making it almost $50,000 more than I paid for my Atom. I don't think it would have double the Atoms performance for that kind of money, and I have to remember that I will never be an F1 driver so it really doesn't matter if someone elses car is a little faster on the race track...I am at the track to learn to be a better driver and to have fun. Funny thing is I just learned the heel/toe technique just last week, and it really makes a difference on corner speed. So far I have attended 2 track days and I'm hooked.

If I could buy an X330 for $65,000 I might get rid of my Atom, it's nice having a top you can put on when it rains.

There is one drawback to owning an Atom.....everywhere you go people crowd around the car and ask all sorts of questions....the same questions....all the time...never ends. I thought this was pretty amazing at first but over time it gets tiring.

Before you guys continue to bash the Atom and think all Atom owners are closed minded.....think again. Not all of us are snobs. Far from it.

Guys it sounds like we are all crazy about cars....so why can't we all just get along??

I must say hello to RV-4mike. Mike how are you doing? How is your WCM seven coming along? I hear what your saying about the Atom forum.....can be a little single minded at times, but I guess that's what you get when you are soooo passionate about your car. When I get down to CA later this year I will look you up and we can go for a spirited drive along the PCH and through the canyons.

Speaking of a test drive...does anyone in southern CA have a CSR 260 that you can give me a ride in???

cheers

[slngsht]

Maverick1, welcome aboard.

 

Not trying to start a flame war between Atoms and Sevens... I wouldn't turn down owning one, but I doubt anyone here is "jealous" of the Atom. I have a semi long list of "ultimate cars" I can afford, and the very top of that list is occupied by the Ultima and Radical SRx (not sure in which order)- not the Atom. I would say Atom is somewhere in the top 10-15 cars that are realistically affordable. The order of my list isn't purely performance though. I saw a Fisher Fury for the first time in person the other day. All I can say is WOW. That's on the list.

 

What I really enjoy about my Seven is that I can (and have) hack it and reconfigure it, and it's a fantastic DIY car. Not something most people do to their cars, but again, that's just me.

 

The thing about Sevens is that, well, it's sort of like a box of chocolates. You never know what ya' gonna get . Some day you run into a 120hp variety, another day it'll be a 400hp variety. I realize there is a variety of options on Atoms as well (I think someone mentioned a 500 hp Atom - should be a blast), so to some extent the same is true.

 

It's easy, and somewhat entertaining to play keyboard warriors when comparing endless configurations of these cars.

 

The Atom IS more flashy than a Seven for sure - then again, I'm not a flashy kinda guy.

 

.02 deposited.

[Maverick1]

Guys, what I don't understand is why any of you would bash the Atom at all. You should really embrace the Atom because what it truly represents is the modern day Lotus 7, taken into the 21st century. Both are minimalist in design, high power to weight ratio etc. You should applaud Simon for making another car with the same philosophy as Colin Chapman had in the 60's.

The Atom is the modern day Lotus 7. Accept it and enjoy it.

The great thing about the 7 today is that you can get it in a kit and build it up very cheaply and I think that's great for people who don't have a high amount of disposable income.

Why bash a car (the Atom) that Colin Chapman would admire himself if he were still here? Both are great cars.

Cheers™

[Al N.]

This will be my last post on this thread so it does not turn into "the lady who dost protest too much", but I wanted to comment on a few things Maverick1 has written:

 

"You should really embrace the Atom because what it truly represents is the modern day Lotus 7, taken into the 21st century"

 

Funny, I thought the CSR was the Lotus 7, taken into the 21st Century.

 

"The great thing about the 7 today is that you can get it in a kit and build it up very cheaply and I think that's great for people who don't have a high amount of disposable income."

 

You know, I've met many of the guys who own Se7ens, and I'm pretty confident a few of them have extremely high amounts of disposable income. We generally don't talk about money when we get together, how impolite would that be?

 

"There is one drawback to owning an Atom.....everywhere you go people crowd around the car and ask all sorts of questions....the same questions....all the time...never ends."

 

Oh, that never happens to Seven owners. Ever!

[Keith]

Not all 7 owners have a high level of disposable income If the X330 is supposed to provide double the performance of an Atom since it costs twice as much, that means that a 300 hp Atom should have 7.5 times the performance of my car. The math works both ways! It'll be interesting to see how Jon W's homebuilt Atom works out. He's never actually seen the real thing, but he's making a pretty nice car in his garage with some sweet touches.

 

The Atom is dramatic looking and has a very high public awareness right now. I don't know if I'd call it a "looker" like Maverick does, but it's nice having all the greasy bits on display for those of us who get enjoyment out of examining the mechanicals of a car. My wife wasn't a fan but I could poke at the details for hours. Of course, I'll do the same thing on a Seven!

 

I wonder what Chapman would have to say about the Atom? It's inspired by race cars, but it's not designed to be one. I think of it as the automotive equivalent of a Ducati Monster. Of course, Colin would probably also be aghast that we were still driving a 50-year-old design!

 

Maverick, do you think the Atom will evolve at all? Not just modifications to fit a different engine, but tweaks to suspension geometry and frame design for improved performance. The car's been around for about 7 years now and it's still basically untouched as far as I know. After 7 years, Chapman had used 5 different engines and done a fairly thorough update of the design, and was only three years away from the seminal Series 3. I'm curious if the Atom will be gradually improved, or if it will undergo step changes like most mass-produced cars.

 

It was really interesting being at that GRM test and seeing/driving the Atom in person to compare to the fairly overheated hype that surrounds the car. My dream sportscar is still a Caterham Superlight though.

[scannon]

Also for registration, it's possible to register a Caterham Superlight with no windshield. At least, it's been done. Don't ask me how, the Colorado law is fairly clear on this but the guys at Rocky Mountain says their local inspector doesn't kick up a fuss. Might just be a friendly inspector who understands the nature of the car. Atom registration is certainly shrouded in secrecy, though.

 

The same local inspector only checked the VINs of the chassis and engine and asked me to start it up so he could hear how loud it was with the 3" exhaust poking out the side of the car. He spent far more time inspecting the custom motorcycle in front of me and then rejected it.

 

He knew what the car was from experience inspecting others from RMSC. He spent less than 5 minutes looking the car over. We spent more time chatting about the car than inspecting it.

[Boxologist]

Hello gentlemen. Since I am an Atom owner I thought I might chime in on this conversation. From a lot of your posts it sounds like there is a little jealously out there especially since Brammo has made a few substantial price increases which is pricing the Atom out of many peoples dreams.

I am a track rookie and have never driven a seven so I can't comment on which is the better track car.

We should always remember that we are always biased about certain cars depending on which one we own.

You guys keep harping on the GRM article which I have not read but no doubt puts the Caterham in the brightest light. Remember one artilce does not make it written in stone. I am sure that there are lots of articles out there where the Atom comes out on top. Remember one article.

You must admit one thing for sure....the Atom is the looker of the two...

I purchased my Atom before the price increases so it works out better for me on the resale side of things. Paid around $53,000 for the 245hp car. My car now would cost around $68,700 so I don't think I will loose any money if I ever decide to sell.

I would really like to test drive a Caterham CSR 260 and have read up on the one off CSR X330 which sounds like an amazing piece of work. Unfortunately if they ever decided to make the X330 it would not doubt come in around the $100,000 US mark making it almost $50,000 more than I paid for my Atom. I don't think it would have double the Atoms performance for that kind of money, and I have to remember that I will never be an F1 driver so it really doesn't matter if someone elses car is a little faster on the race track...I am at the track to learn to be a better driver and to have fun. Funny thing is I just learned the heel/toe technique just last week, and it really makes a difference on corner speed. So far I have attended 2 track days and I'm hooked.

If I could buy an X330 for $65,000 I might get rid of my Atom, it's nice having a top you can put on when it rains.

There is one drawback to owning an Atom.....everywhere you go people crowd around the car and ask all sorts of questions....the same questions....all the time...never ends. I thought this was pretty amazing at first but over time it gets tiring.

Before you guys continue to bash the Atom and think all Atom owners are closed minded.....think again. Not all of us are snobs. Far from it.

Guys it sounds like we are all crazy about cars....so why can't we all just get along??

I must say hello to RV-4mike. Mike how are you doing? How is your WCM seven coming along? I hear what your saying about the Atom forum.....can be a little single minded at times, but I guess that's what you get when you are soooo passionate about your car. When I get down to CA later this year I will look you up and we can go for a spirited drive along the PCH and through the canyons.

Speaking of a test drive...does anyone in southern CA have a CSR 260 that you can give me a ride in???

cheers

 

ok, this guy can't be for real. who logged in with a new screenname to stir the pot? Kevin is that you? stop acting like a tool.

[Keith]

Maverick is an Atom 245 owner, I see him on the Atom board regularly.

[Boxologist]

ok, this guy can't be for real. who logged in with a new screenname to stir the pot? Kevin is that you? stop acting like a tool.

 

Maverick is an Atom 245 owner, I see him on the Atom board regularly.

 

then i would like to apologize to Kevin.:bigears:

[AtomFest]

Hello guys,

 

I was just Googling a bit for Atomfest references, trying to see how well we had been doing with our promotional efforts, when I came across this thread. Let me first say that I appreciate anybody who goes to the effort to create and maintain a forum like this one, knowing how much work it is. I have been a gearhead all my life I'm over 50) and all my attentions have really been paid to drag racing. My uncle was an IHRA pro dragracer in the 60's and I got the bug way back then. I've had lots of muscle type cars since, including a sweet 66 Hemi Belvedere, several Mustang Cobras, and a few Corvettes.

 

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h269/SuperCobraBuilders/Ariel%20Atom/IMGP1980.jpg

 

Never went to a road course until I bought an Ariel Atom.

 

Since, then I have done more than a dozen track days with the Atom, an '03 Mustang Cobra and a C6 Vette and had a ton of fun doing it. I've been to Road Atlanta, Road America, VIR, Blackhawk Farms, Eagles Canyon (with Keith) and what a blast. I've been to a couple of autocrosses along the way and those were great fun too.

 

I found your thread to be very interesting and I agree with a good bit of it. I do think that any forum of enthusiasts can get a little cerebrally inbred and it's not too hard to see signs of that on both sides of the Atom vs 7 discussion. If you were not passionate about your car, you surely would not put up with many of it's idiosyncrasies. Same goes for the Atom. Keith thinks the Atom guys didn't check out his Locost, but I did. You may remember Keith, I was trying to get the Traqmate to work on your car. Of course Tim, also an Atom guy drove your car during the test too. That's him in the photo in the opening page of the GRM article.

 

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h269/SuperCobraBuilders/Eagles%20Canyon/IMGP1883.jpg

 

The Atom is in it's second revision now. The GRM article has it a bit wrong, saying that Brammo christened it the Atom 2 because of their modifications. Actually the first Atom was powered by a 120 HP Rover engine and the chassis was significantly different in geometry and structural detail. One would not mistake it for anything but an Atom, but nonetheless, what you see now is gen 2. Gen 3 is expected to be released in a few weeks, although is seems like it has taken a long time to get there. It's more evolutionary than revolutionary, but being fans of the 7, you all must have a better understanding of that than I.

 

I appreciate the Atom not only for what it can do on the street and track, but what it has done for my overall enjoyment of things automotive in the past year. I expect many of you would say the same about your car(s). There's a good chance that when you come to AtomFest, the Atom you will drive is one of mine. My car was originally scheduled to go to Eagles Canyon, but two days before we were to leave for Texas my car was involved in an involuntary off road excursion put it's participation to an end. After much scrambling we found a substitute Atom. (Can you imagine how hard that was?) The car we ended up bringing was brand new with 15 miles on the odometer when we decided to bring it. We drove it from Arkansas to Texas just to put some miles on it before the track run.

 

On the way, I could tell, even on the street that something was bad wrong in the power department. My car, a 230 HP model was obviously stronger than this 300 HP rated car. Lots of posts on the AtomClub Forum about this, but in a nutshell, the test car had some major problems. I personally trailered it back to Brammo a few weeks later for a complete post mortem. Even more significant than the lack of power for the test was that while my car had five or six track days on it with the usual time to sort out the chassis, the substitute car had none. With a different spec shock, we were at a loss as to properly adjust the car and of course it showed. I provide this information simply to improve the record, not by way of an excuse.

 

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h269/SuperCobraBuilders/UTC/IMGP2448.jpg

[dsacco]

I think this is an interesting discussion and can only give my opinion. I considered the atom and the caterham and could afford either. I picked the caterham for its heritage, the usable weather gear and the funky good looks. I initially went shopping for a csr 260 because I believed more should be better, but I stumbled onto a slr with 200 hp and have found that this is plenty. I just drove it from dallas to aspen and back and used the top for some thunderstorms around amarillo and it worked well. I doubt I would have tried something like that in the atom. When I got home I cleaned it up and took off the windscreen and weather gear and its back to SLR configuration. If I had 10 cars I probably would want an atom, but I just think you can get a great driving experience in a more interesting and useful car. Now the lotus 2-11 may be a different story.

 

Cheers, David

[Al N.]

I said I wouldn't comment on this thread, but I lied. :jester:

 

Randy, thanks for your thoughtful and well-written post. Seriously.

 

Are you guys eligible for Run-and-Gun? That would be a good "neutral ground" to try a few head to heads and settle this all Jets vs. Sharks style...

[Keith]

Thanks for chiming in, Randy.

 

I wouldn't say my car is one of the better examples. It might be one of the more sorted home-builts, but I'd put it as average around a track for a modern 7. It's a bit better than a Caterham in some aspects and worse in others. The fact that I wrote a book is more a reflection of my writing ability and history than anything else

 

I must admit that I'm amazed at the support that Brammo showed for the GRM test, shipping out some red body panels to improve the photogenics of the all-black Atom for the test. If only Westfield was as helpful!

[AtomFest]

I said I wouldn't comment on this thread, but I lied. :jester:

 

Randy, thanks for your thoughtful and well-written post. Seriously.

 

Are you guys eligible for Run-and-Gun? That would be a good "neutral ground" to try a few head to heads and settle this all Jets vs. Sharks style...

 

Thanks Al,

 

I don't know about R&G. Sounds like a great idea though. I might be recovered from all the AtomFest organizing work by then.

[Boxologist]

Randy, when u finish that FFR with the newer drivetrain, please report back here. I have a coworker who was considering a FFR build(before becoming a father for the 2nd time) and last year we saw that theyw ere planning to get the last gen mustang mechanicals to work. I'd love to know how successful they were. and how the frame holds up to a real horse power.