Anyone read the latest Grassroots Motorsports? 7 vs Atom...

[Mondo]

For a more reasonable version of the same thing...

 

http://www.race-car-replicas.com/rcrproadster.html

 

wanted the GT40 but it's price has gone out of my range, thus the ultralite on order

 

 

[rv-4mike]

Thanks for the link Keith. I was looking in the American Atoms section of the forum and thats why I missed the thread.

 

I noted as usual that since the news wasnt really good that the thread was pretty short and there was no comment on the content of the article. I'm surprised that they didnt also censor out the last post since it wasnt particularly flattering to the Atom.

 

I know from my time on the Atom forum that there are at least 3 of them in the metro Dallas area where Brian Anderson is putting together my Ultralite kit. For all the smack that those Atom guys talk, I wonder if any of those guys have brought their cars to one of the local tracks and gone head to head with any of the Ultralites (or any of the other 7s in the area; it seems to be a hotbed of 7 activity)? When I asked the same question on the Atom forum several months ago the response was - silence.

[slngsht]

no Nurburgring times for the Atom that I've seen either.

[ottocycle]

Hello all,

I thought I would throw my 2c in to the mix. I have a few comments.

First: Kudos to Saunders for designing such a radical, innovative and brash car as the Atom. And also for having the testicular fortitude to build it.

Second: I think Jeremy Clarksons video sold 90% of the cars (Al, I understand you are in the advertising business, what do you think?). Jay Leno's endorsement could not have hurt them.

Third: The GRM article shows how a well driven, properly set up car can produce the goods even when outgunned by horsepower (There is a great U tube video from "BBC Top Gear" of an Austin Healey Bugeye

Sprite beating a Mitsubishi whatever up Shelsley Walsh hillclimb that also illustrates this).

Fourth: One can design and build some technically brilliant track day cars along race car principles but many will end up being, (A) difficult to drive fast or (B) need a particularly talented driver to get the best from them (pretty much the same thing). I think just like fighter jets, race cars are the most agile when they are on the razors edge of instability. Cars like the Lotus seven are fun to drive because they communicate well with the driver due to their layout.To paraphrase Keith, when you are almost sitting on the back axle the car does not talk to you, it shouts at you! It is a lot easier to feel the swing when you are at the weight end of the pendelum than when you are at the pivot point. Having said that, the driver who can sense the tail swing before it gets to the point of no return will probably be faster in a mid engined car if it has a tighter component layout and therefore lower moment of inertia. The point being that the indefinable characteristic of being a "fun" car to drive does not necessarily translate into being the fastest layout. A lot of people scoff at the idea of front engined sports cars and feel that the mid engined layout is the only way to go. I would say that the mid engine layout in race cars has more to do with aerodynamics than it has to do with vehicle dynamics. Look at the laptimes posted by English Clubmans racecars (before they allowed mid engined cars compete) or the track record of the Panoz LMP cars. Whats good on the track does not necessarily mean is good for the street. Application should dictate design. It is presonal preference. I like cars that shout at me! I also do not have the talent to feel a rear tire 3 feet behind my back move an inch.

Fifth: Let the Atom guys play in their own sandbox. While it is human nature for the underdog to want to gloat when he/she wins it can also be difficult for someone who has invested a lot in a venture to admit they could have achieved a better result for less treasure even when it is illustrated to them. Is the site run by the sellers or the owners of the car? (Sound familiar???)

 

Anyway, well done Keith. I would love to check out the Atom sometime, I am sure I will. For now I am quite happy getting my own project sorted. I drove it for the first time recently and was pleased I did not make a complete dogs dinner out of things. I need to tune the suspension. Anybody know of bathroom scales that go over 330#?

 

Dermot.

Fury/Hayabusa.

[slngsht]

Anybody know of bathroom scales that go over 330#?

 

Dermot.

Fury/Hayabusa.

 

Ask, and you shall receive :yesnod:

 

Go to page 2 on this thread and read the first post

[Al N.]

Dermot-What a considered and articulate response! I'm prone to making strong, blanket-type statements, mostly of the kind that paint Se7ens in a rose-colored light.

 

My particular beef with the Atom was pretty much a reaction to the mostly fawning coverage. Anything that gets hyped up that much by the PR factories has got to be subject to more scrutiny, IMHO.

 

I was very interested in the Fury, but again, concerned about registration over her in NJ. I love the lines when it has the low windshield. I look forward to road reports and pix.

[Keith]

I agree that Top Gear should be getting commission on the Atom. It was around for five years before that report, but there was absolutely no public awareness of it outside the specialty press. Probably just as well, it took them 5 years to deliver one to the EVO Car of the Year test that worked. But when they sorted it out, they blew EVO's socks off.

 

The drivers for the GRM article were not me I think one is semi-pro and the other is BS Levy, who does have a few track miles under his belt. I don't know if you read the article, Dermot, but the author's point was that there's a difference between fun and effective. Basically, the Atom felt fast, while the Seven simply got down to business, went faster and didn't make a fuss about it - even with experienced drivers behind the wheel. My own particular impression after a few laps in the Atom was that it could be faster than my car, but it would take a very skilled driver and you'd be taking more risks to do it. That impression was formed in a vacuum, I didn't have my car running alongside to give me perspective.

 

The Atom site is run by the club, so it's similar to this one.

 

After building my own car, I've become a real cynic about both horsepower claims and weight claims. I've seen my 148 rwhp, 1300 lb car outrun a "230 hp" Caterham in a straight line, and I've seen a "550 kg" Westfield hit the scales at 1350 lbs.

 

I've been given permission by GRM to put the article online once the magazine is off the newsstands. You should all go buy a copy, though

[slngsht]

You should all go buy a copy, though

 

Easier said than done... been to borders and barnes and nobel. no luck

[Boxologist]

so keith, the Atom is like a lighter, poorly setup mkI MR2 SC?:lol: and to think, a local AutoXer here just sold a mkI that was setup well for $2k.

[ottocycle]

Mazda,

Serendipity. Thanks for the response, I will contact Tom. I am painting the car this weekend and will see when I can get over to Dulles, perhaps we can drive together.

Cheers,

 

Dermot.

PS: Any recommendations on littery numbers?javascript:insertsmiley('%20','/aspnetForum/images/emoticons/smile5.gif')javascript:insertsmiley('%20','/aspnetForum/images/emoticons/smile5.gif')

[Keith]

If you can't find the issue locally (it's made it to the depths of Colorado now), you can always ask for a freebie

 

https://ssl.grmotorsports.com/sample.php

[slngsht]

If you can't find the issue locally (it's made it to the depths of Colorado now), you can always ask for a freebie

 

https://ssl.grmotorsports.com/sample.php

 

Done

[Boxologist]

picked it up today. also nestled in the back on page 155 is a blurb about the southeastern 7s gathering from a couple of months ago.

[tnttim]

They tout the Atom to be the "Ultimate Track Day Car" yet they run it in camparisions that have a standard Caterham in it. I am not knocking the Caterham guys but there is a difference. The Cat's are Street Legal to begin with. Unless you "know" someone or the DOT inspector happens to know your uncle Prez. Grant, you not getting the Atom on the street. And yes I am sure a few have squeeked by, but in Michigan a windsheild and wipers are required (at least accroding to the paperwork).

 

If they wished to put in up against other "Track Day Cars" I am sure that Chuck Speara, Steve Brinkerhoff and all the other XR7 and se7en guys would love to show at an autocross for a bit of gentlemans competition. I personally would volenteer for that.

 

I had been in contact with Bill Feagin of Brammo to talk about Autocrossing the car. But he states "The Ariel Atom is not currently SCCA approved. We are just beginning the application process and hope to be approved at some point in the future."(7-27-07) Private email. I dont know if he meant strictly as a Club racer or not.

 

As far as Autocross (Solo), I see no reason it couldnt run DM or EM. Unless there is Roll Bar issues such as materials and thickness or some other safety issue? Of course those classes are for real "production based" cars. Is a "Kit" car that only the factory builds really a production-based car?

 

Bill Feagin """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

We sell complete cars only (prices range between $52,000 and $90,000 with an average of $66,000), but we offer the following two “partially assembled” options.

 

· Self Assembly Kit - Owner installed drivetrain ($500 option)

Ariel Atom 2 delivered as a component vehicle, with drivetrain not installed 20-24 man hours of owner assembly. Price reflects drivetrain crating and preparation charges.

 

· Self Assembly Kit ($250 option)

Ariel Atom 2 delivered as a component vehicle requiring 8 – 10 man hours of owner assembly. Kit comes with lights, ecu and steering wheel in a separate shipment.

 

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""

Upcharge partially assembled???

 

If you go to the Ariel atom web-site, which is very nice by the way, you can build a car. When I did a few months a go the sn# locked in for me, if I was to place the order that day, was 195.

 

It may have to run in B-Modified as long as the car meet GCR specs? Which if they are running at all these tracks doing their "Atom Experiance" you would think that they would or the tracks would pay hell if there was an accident.

 

As far as approved for autocross. I had thought this would intale a throught exame from tech and your done. ( I may be wrong. Any Tech stewars comments?)

 

I like the atom, I think it is a great car. But the Ecotec motor is not where I would have gone. I would LOVE to have an Atom. But for the money a XR7 made street legal would be the better car and I still would have money left over for the trailer.

 

But while I am here in Fantasy Land or if I win the Big One tonight, lets just go for the Donkervoort D8-RS hard top.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/Donkervoort_D8_RS_vr_EMS.jpg

 

If you havent heard of Donkervoort check out the D8 Gt sometime, wonder if it has A/C?

http://www.motortrend.com/auto_shows/coverage/geneva/112_2007_geneva_motor_show_part_3/photo_37.html

 

Starting at $90,000 EUR to $130,000 EUR

 

 

I admit though, I have never seen an Atom other than pictures/videos.

 

Lets see my options.... $400.00 Atom Experiance.... or $400.00 for steel for new locost frame?

 

 

Tim Tennant

Just a mechanic. NOT Rich.

[slngsht]

heck, since i have a heavy seven that doesn't handle, I'll drag race the damn thing

[Kitcat]

The Grassroots does suggest that the result may have been due to the Atom needing some sorting whereas Keith's car is spot-on. So, the Atom owners can always say it was apples to oranges.

 

With regard to "stretchers" being told with about weight and hp, I echo Keith's sentiments. That was the reason I had my '97 Caterham weighed as soon as I bought it and was surprised that it was right around 1225 lbs, as advertised.

 

When I parked in next to an Ultralight at a track day recently, my car looked tiny, but the Ultralight owner insisted his car weighed 1225 too. (Helium in the tires maybe?). I love the Ultralight and am not knocking it and admire it's amazing product/price ratio, reputed reliability, etc., but am slightly sceptical about its weight claim (I would believe 1425 lbs).

[Keith]

I think an Atom would autocross fairly well, but that the width of the car would give it a disadvantage over a Seven. Other than the width, it would be a good contest. It certainly can be autocrossed and Atom owners report great success with this, but it may not have SCCA classing yet. Heck, if an Atom rolls up to the lights at one of the autocrosses I run, I'd let it run! Let it run in the same class an equivalent Locost would run.

 

The reason the "self assembly" Atom is available is likely for registration purposes. It's easier to register a kit car than one that came ready to go. It avoids some of those "it is kit or is it production?" questions, I'll bet.

 

Also for registration, it's possible to register a Caterham Superlight with no windshield. At least, it's been done. Don't ask me how, the Colorado law is fairly clear on this but the guys at Rocky Mountain says their local inspector doesn't kick up a fuss. Might just be a friendly inspector who understands the nature of the car. Atom registration is certainly shrouded in secrecy, though.

 

Part of the "sorting" the Atom needed was replacing the Yokohama A048Rs with slicks. I was on a set of two-year-old RA-1s

[slngsht]

Part of the "sorting" the Atom needed was replacing the Yokohama A048Rs with slicks. I was on a set of two-year-old RA-1s

 

We can all use a little sorting like that

[7evin]

Well if all goes well we may get the chance to find out about this sevens -vs Atom debate

Mine and Lorens buddy Derek Whitis has purchased a 500 hp Atom from the UK.

He has been fighting with customs for a couple of months, but it looks like he will

have it for the Cannon Ball Run in May,08.... 18 or so track events in 7 days.

Derek doesn't play he races all the time and is a great driver. I guess we'll

have to figure out how to add some JATO tubes to MOJO :crazy:

We are definitely up grading the roll bars, more weight but necessary.

There will be no excuses accepted and no prisoners taken.

I just hope we can defend the honor of all the great 7s.

Have any of you guys ever thought about joining us in this event?

It would be great to have several 7s in this event.

 

[WestTexasS2K]

Keith any chance that another invitation for the Atoms Fest could be wrangled for mojo to attend? I would love to run with some Atoms to gauge the performance differences.