What Constitutes a LSiS?

[JBH]

The Panoz Roadster seems really close

http://web3.ichwobbledich.com/cms/images/stories/1cali_0306net/1cali_0306net_gr11.JPG

 

If I squint, I see a resemblance in the Prowler:

http://www.zianet.com/SLlover/prowler01.JPG

 

Is this X-Bow?

http://l.yimg.com/img.autos.yahoo.com/i/articles/ktm_xbow_concept/ktm_xbow_show_x.jpg

 

Some think the Atom was inspired by a Seven:

http://www.arielmotor.co.uk/04/press/autocar_arial_aerial.jpg

 

I don't know what this is:

http://www.lightauto.com/cc12.JPG

 

Aerodynamic Seven:

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd136/soareyes/1.jpg

 

 

[slngsht]

Somebody in another thread said "If Caterham sues you, that's how you know you have a se7en"... it's kinda like a Jeff Foxworthy joke

[xflow7]

Some truth in that, Mazda.

 

IMO:

 

- the Panoz and Prowler are out because neither follows the minimalist theme and they're both kind of portly if I remember correctly.

 

- the Atom and X-Bow are out based on engine location. To me, it ain't LSi unless the engine's in front of you.

 

- I don't know what the LMU3 is either, but I think I've seen it before. Anyway, I could see it as LSiS except I have a hunch it may pre-date the Seven.

 

- the last one I'm conflicted about. I would say clearly LSiS but for the hardtop; part of me says that's a deal-breaker as far as LSiS status.

[Mandurath]

Last i think is a donkevort. And the top comes off if those bolt holes are real.

[slngsht]

Some truth in that, Mazda.

 

IMO:

 

- the Panoz and Prowler are out because neither follows the minimalist theme and they're both kind of portly if I remember correctly.

 

- the Atom and X-Bow are out based on engine location. To me, it ain't LSi unless the engine's in front of you.

 

- I don't know what the LMU3 is either, but I think I've seen it before. Anyway, I could see it as LSiS except I have a hunch it may pre-date the Seven.

 

- the last one I'm conflicted about. I would say clearly LSiS but for the hardtop; part of me says that's a deal-breaker as far as LSiS status.

 

Donkevort is definitely LSiS. They are just like any other seven, but have various body work options, such as the one you see. For quite a while they held the fastest lap honors at the 'ring for a street legal car. I believe Radical took that title, but not sure.

[xflow7]

I wondered if that was a Donkervoort. I'm aware of their LSiS credentials (and performance exploits), but even the availabilty of a hard top still seems like anathema to me. Just seems like it misses the point a bit seeing as most LSiS drivers I know don't even use the soft top.

 

Anyway, I'm being kind of tongue in cheek about all that as the Donkervoort is explicitly LSi according to the company.

[slngsht]

I wondered if that was a Donkervoort. I'm aware of their LSiS credentials (and performance exploits), but even the availabilty of a hard top still seems like anathema to me. Just seems like it misses the point a bit seeing as most LSiS drivers I know don't even use the soft top.

 

Anyway, I'm being kind of tongue in cheek about all that as the Donkervoort is explicitly LSi according to the company.

 

It's such an amazing se7en, handicapped by an unfortunate brand name :ack:

[JBH]

From the picture, I see the Panoz as being a descendant: open top, two-seater, front engine, outboard suspension, bug-eye headlights, and wide rear wings

 

Here are a few obvious ones that we don't see often

 

Quantum Xtream

http://www.davebence.co.uk/quantum_xtreme/images/indexpic.jpg

 

Locoblade & Loconinja

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/locosaki/pics/photos030504/139-3950_img.jpg

 

Tiger Six

http://www.fq101.co.uk/info/images/tiger.jpg

 

Dax Rush

http://www.replica-cars.nl/rush_dax8.jpg

 

TVR

http://trvmotorsport.com/images/willowpic1.jpg

[bsimon]

LMU3 looks to be a Lotus Mark III or Mark IV. Maybe not the original but a good facsimile thereof.

 

[bsimon]

An older image of the "real" Mark III

 

 

 

http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/1202579135_Beau.HazelGrinsR500.jpg

[scannon]

An older image of the "real" Mark III

 

 

 

http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/1202579135_Beau.HazelGrinsR500.jpg

It has the same registration number (LMU3) on the nose, perhaps it is the acutal reatored car.

[Davemk1]

It has the same registration number (LMU3) on the nose, perhaps it is the acutal reatored car.

 

I believe that would be Hazel.

 

Dave

[WestTexasS2K]

i think the Panoz and Donker are certainly LSIS. They are more comfortable versions but the look is close IMHO.

[xflow7]

This is actually kind of an interesting thread as it brings to light a little bit what we all mean by "inspired." That is, does "inspired" refer more to certain key stylistic attributes of the car, or more to the design philosophy?

 

One look at the interior of, say, the Panoz (not to mention the presence of...horror!...doors :willy: ) and I just don't see "Lotus Seven inspired..." even though I can clearly discern the stylistic elements that make others view it as such.

 

No right or wrong, I suppose, just different perspectives. :thumbs:

[Titus]

the last one I'm conflicted about. I would say clearly LSiS but for the hardtop; part of me says that's a deal-breaker as far as LSiS status.

 

I think you need to re-think this... Lotus offered a hardtop as a factory option for the series four.

 

http://www.lotus7register.co.uk/images/l7s4pix/S4top.jpg

[xflow7]

 

I think you need to re-think this... Lotus offered a hardtop as a factory option for the series four.

 

http://www.lotus7register.co.uk/images/l7s4pix/S4top.jpg

 

Fair enough. I was unaware of that. :thumbs:

[Mandurath]

Something i didnt know either.

[JBH]

This is the list of Lotus 7 Replicas according to Wikipedia:

* McGregor Motorsports Ltd (New Zealand) Lotus 7 replica kits and manufacturers[1]

* Marc Nordon Racing Vortx RT, RT+ and RT Super

* Luego Sports Cars Velocity and V8 Viento in UK

* Almac a kit car manufacturer in New Zealand

* Caterham owns the rights to reproduce the Lotus Super Seven

* Dax Cars ltd

* Deman Motorsport[2]

* Westfield Sportscars produces several models

* Stalker V6 Clubman by Brunton Automotive

* Raptor by Tornado Sports Cars

* Donkervoort from Netherlands with Audi-Turbo-Engines

* HKT from Germany also with Audi-Turbo-Engines

* Hauser from Switzerland with BMW engines

* Tiger Z100 from Z Cars Ltd

* MAC #1[3]

* MK Indy from MK Engineering (using Ford Sierra parts)

* Mitsuoka Zero 1 from Toyama, Japan

* ESTfield from RaceTech (using Lada parts)

* Esther [4]

* Several models from Robin Hood Engineering Ltd

* Dala7 (a taller and wider design using Volvo parts) [5]

* Rotus, originally built with components from Japan and a Mazda rotary engine

* Gregory

* Superformance S1 Roadster

* Leitch Super Sprint, Leitch Industries, Invercargill, New Zealand

* Fraser Clubman from Fraser Cars Ltd

* Vindicator Sprint and the four seat Vindicator Family by Vindicator Cars [6]

* Irmscher 7[7]

* Elfin [8], Australian manufacturer of the MS8 (V8 powered) and Type 3 Clubman

* Super Martin from France

* Pegasus Automobile from Germany.

* FM Westfield from Flyin' Miata

* Birkin S3, Lotus 7 replica

 

[ottocycle]

Hello all,

 

I just thought I would throw in my 2c worth. Discussions like this enter the realm of the blind man feeling the elephant. Where one stands as far as ones vision of the seven is concerned dictates the influence these cars have on one. What follows here is one (blind) mans personal perspective. For example, my particular interest is more in the realm of power to weight ratios, but with an emphasis on keeping the weight off rather than boosting power. For example, take two cars, one weighing 3,000lbs. with 300 HP and the other 1,000lbs and 100 HP. Assuming equal levels of structural integrity and suspension sophistication, which would you like to take down a country lane?

 

I think an important part of the LSiS definition is the absense of excess. No heater, radio, cup holders etc., only what is needed to get the job done.

 

In my opinion, the Prowler does not come anywhere near being a LSiS. Its big, fat, heavy, underpowered and way over appointed. Other than that its perfect. To me the visual style is the least important part of the equation. The 7's style came into being as a result of it being the most cost effective shape to produce. Compound curves in alloy are expensive. The Panoz is a great car and its lineage is tied very closely to the 7, more so even than many of the 7 clones out there. (Grown from the ashes of a Costin designed, Irish built sevenesque sportscar with a great frame and suspension, the Panoz is a very American interpretation of the theme.) While very competent in its own right, it is too heavy and too well appointed to be a LSiS. Its hydroformed aluminum coachwork make it a difficult car to cost effectively build by hand.

 

Add to that the financial part of the equation and we are really off to the races! Pounds per horsepower per dollar!! Elsewhere on this site there is a debate going on between the Seven fans and the Atom fans. I like the Atom. It is an audacious design and to me comparisons with the seven say more about an evolved 50 year old design than they do about the Atom. A clean sheet design in year 2000 should be orders of magnitude better than an evolved design. I do not believe it is. I think the Radical should be included in this discussion. My personal favourite in the LSiS debate is the Light Car Company Rocket, a 15 year old design currently undergoing a facelft but is very expensive...but it weighs less than 900lbs!!!

 

Lets assume we have a 200lb. driver;

 

In a 140hp Locost/Miata: Cost $10,000 Weight 1400lbs. = $875.04 per horsepower pound.

In a 265hp Atom/Ecotec: Cost $65,000 Weight 1200lbs. = $12,310.60 per horsepower pound.

in a 140 hp Caterham : Cost (est): $40,000 Weight 1250lbs. = $38,6100.00 per horsepower pound.

 

It makes interesting grist for the mill. Please do'nt bother correcting my prices/weights, they are not exact and only used to illustrate my point.

 

Let the games begin...............

 

Cheers,

 

Dermot.

 

 

[solder_guy]

This is the list of Lotus 7 Replicas according to Wikipedia:

 

There are many more .. look at this book:

 

Lotus Seven & the Independents: Featuring the Lotus Seven and a History of the World's Independent Builders (Hardcover)

 

Rob