JBH Posted September 10, 2007 Author Share Posted September 10, 2007 One of the reasons I started this thread was twofold: (1) to see how many actual and potential LSiS were out there (I'm a newbie) and (2) to get individual insights into the elements people consider important about the Seven. In my mind, one has to go back to the design basis and intent of the Seven. This was a car to be driven to the tracks in England, raced and then hopefully driven home. I am no expert, but I would say there are some key elements: * tube frame construction * front engine * manual transmission * close ratio transmission and high rear ratio suitable for short tracks * rear wheel drive * out-board suspension * outboard brakes * double A-arms in front * live axle rear * r&p steering * two seats * minimal appointments * use of lightweight materials * street legal (hence the presence of headlights and taillights) Not all of these elements need be present, but a predominance should be there in a LSiS. The problem with this is that there are non-LSiS that fit this definition (hence the need for styling cues) and there has been considerable evolution of design among those that started with the Seven as their design basis. With the fully independent suspension, Caterham has parted significantly from one of the main design elements of the original Sevens, but that's what happens as cars evolve. Look at the current 911 versus that of 1966, yet there is no doubt it is still a 911. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al N. Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 JBH, you should really get yourself that Sevens & Independents book...perhaps the best book for surveying the breadth of LSiS vehicles. For me, it is tough to put into words but I definitely "know one when I see one". I don't if I agree wih the outboard suspension thing, since the CSR now has inboard as does the Rotus and also anyone who has gone with the Freestyle suspension swap. The Prowler and even the Panoz are not lean enough to be consider LSiS vehichles, IMHO. The Prowler is more of an homage to American street rods. To my eye, the Atom is in the vein of the Lotus 340r, and as someone else mentioned, the Ducati Monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xromad Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 And, to muddy the waters.... There are several other terms I've seen "bandied about". In informal conversation I use them pretty interchangeably. However, formally I would put them in kind of this order... 1. Seven - Lotus, Caterham 2. Se7en - A close facsimile of a Seven. Birkin, Westie... 3. LSIS and Clubman - A fairly loose facsimile that still follows the primary "look and feel". Stalker, Ultralite... 4. Sevenesque - Has a vague resemblence.... Atom, Prowler, Panoz... My favorite, of course is: 5. All of the above. Others would probably have arguments for a different order, or different terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxologist Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 lets no confuse Chapmanian ideals with the se7en. there were many Lotus race and 'consumer' cars that were not the 7. The Atom, while applying to minimalism ideal isn't a se7en because of the rear mid engine layout and near totally exposed cockpit. the Radical, while ultralight fails the se7en test because it lakes the outrigger front wheels. just because its not a se7en doesn't mean its desirable or an excellent vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 I think an important part of the LSiS definition is the absense of excess. No heater, radio, cup holders etc., only what is needed to get the job done. That's pretty much what it comes down to in my mind as well. One could define a certain absence of styling as well And the cars should be capable on the race track, as they're essentially slightly-tamed racers. In most cases, it's pretty easy to figure out. There are a lot of cars out there that are copies or slightly evolved versions of the original - and that includes cars made by Caterham, really. It's also pretty easy to figure out that the Prowler was not inspired by the Seven - try to imagine one doing any sort of racing that involves a corner. But the X-Bow and the Atom? Both could easily be described as "a 21st century Lotus Seven", and I suspect both of them have at some point Our little cars are the poster children for performance through light weight. Here's one for you - what about the Lotus 340R? I think even Lotus said it was Seven-inspired, but with new technology. The engine's in the wrong place, it has a frame glued together out of aluminum extrusions...but you have to admit that it follows the philosophy, right down to a highly stressed engine that is prone to exbloding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slngsht Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 That's pretty much what it comes down to in my mind as well. One could define a certain absence of styling as well And the cars should be capable on the race track, as they're essentially slightly-tamed racers. In most cases, it's pretty easy to figure out. There are a lot of cars out there that are copies or slightly evolved versions of the original - and that includes cars made by Caterham, really. It's also pretty easy to figure out that the Prowler was not inspired by the Seven - try to imagine one doing any sort of racing that involves a corner. But the X-Bow and the Atom? Both could easily be described as "a 21st century Lotus Seven", and I suspect both of them have at some point Our little cars are the poster children for performance through light weight. Here's one for you - what about the Lotus 340R? I think even Lotus said it was Seven-inspired, but with new technology. The engine's in the wrong place, it has a frame glued together out of aluminum extrusions...but you have to admit that it follows the philosophy, right down to a highly stressed engine that is prone to exbloding. my car doesn't follow this part of the seven philosophy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scannon Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 I think an important part of the LSiS definition is the absense of excess. No heater, radio, cup holders etc., only what is needed to get the job done. That definition knocks my Caterham out of the LSiS running, my SV model came with a heater as standard equipment. :lol: I was planning on removing it sometime this Winter as it seems redundant what with all the footbox heat and it only heats a small spot on my right leg anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al N. Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Skip-That isn't a heater for you, it's an auxilliary cooling system for the engine! I actually don't know how in/effective it is, seeing as my car is not equipped with one. Good thing too, since I've used the fan switch as my radiator fan override switch.-Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHKflyer52 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Skip-That isn't a heater for you, it's an auxilliary cooling system for the engine! I actually don't know how in/effective it is, seeing as my car is not equipped with one. Good thing too, since I've used the fan switch as my radiator fan override switch.-Al Heck I though a hat, scarf and wool jacket was a heater along with the trans tunnel being warm to hot depending on how much air flow your car has through the engine compartment.:jester: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderbrake Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Heater, I ain't got no steenking heater !!!! In fact I ain't got no top or side curtains, so it's cold in the middle of November. http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/659991921_IMGP5151 (Small).JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 my car doesn't follow this part of the seven philosophy Yeah, but by the descriptions being bandied about, your car isn't an LSiS anyhow The participants of the Se7ens across USA tour would gird themselves for driving with shorts, jackets and hats. Makes perfect sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxologist Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 i like my heater. has a bitchin' 7 logo on it. also gets my legs that extra level of baked. sort of like brownig a chicken or turkey those last 20 minutes of cooking. its cooked, but its not the right shade just quite yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdrc7 Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Thinly Disgusied Race Cars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottocycle Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 tdrc7, Thats the best concise definition I have yet read. Well done !! Dermot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locostv8 Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 The intention is to apply the name to a pre manufactured rolling chassis set up for Ford Windsors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drew... Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 I couldn't resist. :lol: Front engine (kohler 20hp 2 cyclinder) Rear wheel drive requires constant maintenance no heater although it does have a huge tendency towards understeer http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/764878834_CIMG0467.jpg the yellow "7" matched too well to resist :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandurath Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 so, lawn mower races are actually rally cross 7's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solder_guy Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 Is this Marlin Triumph a LSIS? Rob http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/58521291_marlin.jpg http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/1889296722_marlin2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now