BDR sump solutions

[IamScotticus]

Would this not be a solution?

It appears to be offset.

https://www.burtonpower.com/engine-to-bellhousing-lower-dirt-plate-2000e-fp656.html

If you get this, also get the matching upper blanking plate.

And a some clutch cables.

Edited July 14, 2022 by IamScotticus

[MV8]

Forgive me for covering anything you already know. If you make a new cover, a same thickness cover or separate starter shim will probably be necessary. If after running, the starter pinion does not release the ring gear, the starter is too deep in the bell.

It seems likely the new sump touches the cover only at the lowest point on the pan and it would be hard to tell until you start dimpling. A shallow dimple in the cover would make it fit both pans and be hidden. If you are concerned the cover may spread from the dimpling and no longer fit, the cover could be clamped around the edge to a few strips of bar stock or angle iron before dimpling. You could drill the strips to utilize the bolt holes for clamping.

For fabricating, if you don't weld, consider a flat lower .050" steel sheet cover that comes up to the pan, a flat upper .050" cover from the crank to one inch below the pan, then use 1 inch x 1/8 or 1/4 aluminum bar stock as a spacer and bolt together with 1/4-28 x 3/4 machine screws and nylocs with the heads facing the flywheel. You can probably get all that at home depot. Make patterns that fit perfectly from cereal box board before cutting any metal.

If you are going to hammer form, don't trim the lower edge and drill to fit the bolt holes until after you have the necessary offset/joggle in the panel.

[inchoate]

So, I'm pretty sure I'm the king of the morons.  I spent all day screwing around with templates and such and didn't make much headway.  After a lot of head scratching it turns out that all I needed to do is cut two 1/2" square notches in the original plate and it fits just fine.  I'm not sure what I was seeing the other day but it was clearly wrong.  I'm starting to think I need to take a week off from this car and get my head back in the game.

 

Anyway, one problem solved but now I'm deeply worried about my oil tank clearing the air filters.  Can't really figure that out until the engine is back in the car though.

[IamScotticus]

Most tanks mounted in the "triangle", in front of the pax foot well, usually clear. 

Is your setup different?

[inchoate]

I've got a long cockpit chassis so there's less room than usual.  The tank was a bit of a battle but I'm pretty sure what I have will work.  Won't know for sure until the engine is back in the car.

[inchoate]

It's been a while but I thought I'd update things and maybe save someone some trouble in the future.

 

I managed to solve all of my packaging issues and get an oil tank from Patterson that would fit.  I put the Titan pan on for a final test and that's where the fun began. 

 

Turns out that my motor has a built bottom end and has ARP rod bolts.  The dry sump pan is designed to work with the stock rod bolts and the longer ARP items foul the windage tray.  The solution is, apparently, to machine down the heads of the ARP bolts until they clear.  Not a big job but I noticed that there's a significant weight difference between the bolts before and after machining.  I'm not sure that a the amount of weight would cause an issue but given the hassle involved in getting that motor rebuilt if something goes wrong I chickened out.  The motor has always run really well so I'll assume whoever built it knew what they were doing.  I paid someone an obscene amount of money to fix my wet sump pan and I'm putting everything back together.

 

My plan is to drive the wheels off it and when it blows up and I have to get the motor rebuilt I'll do the whole dry sump thing when I can get the rotating assembly balanced.

 

TLDR: Titan Kent block dry sump oil pan is incompatible with ARP rod bolts, check before you proceed.

[IamScotticus]

So,  are you dry sumping the steel pan or staying wet?

I don't know what bottom end I have but it's probably Cat OE.  I passed on a really snug looking used Vegantune cast sump for a beat up rusty (was) FF style steel sump to hopefully avoid any fitment issues and being steel, is repairable.  Its in the hands of a race prep shop now getting a facelift.

[inchoate]

The wet sump pan is back on and the motor is back in the car.  I have bizarre ideas about maybe getting a drive or two in before the weather gets bad.

 

Here's a pic of my rod bolts.  If yours look like this check your clearances.

 

 

[IamScotticus]

2 hours ago, inchoate said:

I have bizarre ideas about maybe getting a drive or two in before the weather gets bad.

Nawwwww...Don't do anything crazy like that!

[wdb]

Looking for an update and hopefully some pictures and maybe information on what hardware you used -- oil pump etc. I've just ruined my second wet sump and don't want to add 50 lbs. of skid plate, so I'm delving into dry sump on my twincam.

[MV8]

A skid plate that is 1/8 thick steel and say 14"x16" would be under 8 lbs. A sump could have guards plug welded on. A little more ground clearance or donut bump stops on the coilover shafts to reduce the bump travel a bit?

[inchoate]

The dry sump was a bust but I got a new set of springs and actually set the ride height correctly and now it doesn't ground out the sump.  I still try to be aware of bumps and such, but I can at least get in and out of my driveway without issues now.

 

I'm still thinking about a sump guard but there's no real off the shelf solution and I've got enough winter projects as it is.

[wdb]

I measured my ride height according to Caterham and it is spot on. I have a blown front shock, plus I want to go to Avon tires which will cause a loss of clearance, so coilovers will be on the agenda along with the dry sump. That will give me proper ride height adjustment. I truly think I need a guard of some kind though -- even with a dry sump -- because I never even saw what destroyed my lovely fabricated sump; there's just too much crap thicker than 2-3/4" on the roads around here I guess.

 

Thanks for the reply. I won't junk up the thread any more.

[IamScotticus]

I think a skid plate is more essential with a DS.  There must be something to keep from hooking the bellhousing. 

The DS just gives you the room for it.  YMMV

[CarlB]

I have a Raceline cast wet sump pan and a very simple skid plate. It works great. I have gone off at several racetracks and never had a problem. The plate just rides up over. it is held on by radiator clamps. I got it that way and haven't bothered to install tabs to bolt it on. Crude and effective. 

 

 

[papak]

While I have a 2.3l Duratec, I was similarly concerned about ground clearance . I run a Raceline aluminum wet sump currently. The Raceline dry sump extends nearly the same distance under the block so no clearance benefit there. I use an aluminum skid panel instead. It clears the sump by 1/2" and matches the bottom of the T-9. It is fabricated from ⅛" aluminum and mounts directly to the chassis. It's strange enough to absorb the hits and durable enough to be pounded back out after the major ones (and that's after being laser focused on the road surface while driving!).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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