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BMW/Titan LSD issues


Drakman

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Hi Guys and Girls,

 

I have been reading the "BMW/Titan Viability" thread over on the Caterham & Lotus 7 Club site, nearly 60 pages and close to 600 posts.  I don't think this issue can be confined to the UK so I was wondering what solutions to the failing BMW Titan LSD issue in Caterhams have been thought of here?

 

I ask because I tested my car and found the Titan LSD has failed in my car, 2014 Roadsport with 13,000 Klm's.  I haven't removed the diff yet so i don't know if i have the carbon plates or the sintered bronze.  I know the Bellville washers/springs have most likely cracked/broken though as I can rotate the drivers side rear wheel by hand with the passengers side wheel firmly on the ground.

 

Cheers
Dave

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Hi BlakeJ, yes i emailed  Steve  as well.  The Tracsport sounds like a good way to go. 

 

I have also asked this company about their diff centres as well.  https://www.difflab.com.au/pages/os-giken-superlock-technology

 

Apparently the diff in my car is a BMW 168 but there are several versions thereof.

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I asked my importer about this recently - I have a car on order. He said the new 420R spec are fitted with a BMW Getrag LSD. Apparently they dont have the rebuild issues that the Titans did. I also have read that the SPC tracscport internals seem to hold up but time will tell. 

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BMW should have a part number available via their Employee Tool Kit 4.0. Service desk at a dealership should be able to help you. Depending on year, you may need to go to BMW Classic. I know BMW classic is moving headquarters and may be slow to respond.

 

If BMW does have the diff internals, they would come out of Dingolfing. Figure 2/3 weeks or so.

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Hi Guys and Girls,   I think the Getrag diff is a Torsen helical torque biasing action, geared not with clutch plates.  Must be like the quaife diff I guess.  From what I have read they sound good for a road car but some say that they will break axles in a racing scenario if a wheel lifts off and regrips the bitumen.

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Very Interesting. I am a novice to all of this but sounds like the Getrag has its road advantages with the track drawbacks (and axel breaking potential with wheel lift off situations). I found this an interesting read (for me being a beginner).

https://www.rrtransmissions.com/lsdstore/lsd-comparison

 

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On 10/9/2022 at 4:26 PM, Drakman said:

Hi BlakeJ, yes i emailed  Steve  as well.  The Tracsport sounds like a good way to go. 

 

I have also asked this company about their diff centres as well.  https://www.difflab.com.au/pages/os-giken-superlock-technology

 

Apparently the diff in my car is a BMW 168 but there are several versions thereof.

Drakman, have you been able to reach Steve? I've not heard back. Perhaps I've got the wrong email address?

Thanks for any info.

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Hi Blake,

 

Yes, I have received a response from Steve Perks, He seems like a straight up Guy as well.

 

Here is a copy of his reply re sending a Tracsport out to me in Australia.  I had to wait a couple of days for his reply to my initial email, I would think he is flat out at the moment.

 

Hi David

 

I can ship you a Tracsport LSD, you would need to find a suitable transmission company to install it.

The only other way is for you to purchase a new BMW complete differential 3.64 from Caterham, I fit the Tracsport LSD and ship the complete unit to you.

BMW do not make a mechanical plate type diff for the one series only M cars.

 

Regards Steve Perks

 

 

I have some prices to ship to Australia as well, I have no idea how or if that will relate to costs to you but I thought shipping to Australia for the Diff centre was good.

Hi David

 

The Tracsport LSD is £1273.89 shipping approx. £120.00.

2 x side bearing £39.13 each.

2 x side seal £9.30 each.

I personally do not know a transmission shop in your area.

The crown wheel is bolted on standard.

 

Regards steve

 

 

 

Hope this helps Blake

Dave

 

 

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Hi Blake,

 

Yes, tracsport@hotmail.co.uk was the email.  It did take a few days to get a reply though. 

 

I also looked at O.S. GIKEN, LSD's in Italy of all places, mostly because the distributor here in Australia didn't seem the least bit interested.   The Guy? in Italy, Gabriele, was super helpful but OS GIKEN don't currently have anything that will work for the BMW 168 diff. 

 

I contacted the guys at rrtransmissions as well, I'm just waiting for shipping cost's from them at the moment.  

 

Cheers

Dave

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  • 2 months later...
  • 2 months later...

It's been a long time but my Drexler diff finally arrived.  It got lost in transit between Germany and England but all good now.  Just have to find/make some time to swap it over.

20230309_115943.jpg

20230309_171426.jpg

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Well, the new drexler diff is in and ready to test but the weather here has other ideas.   Turning the wheels by hand i can see the prop shaft turn and the opposite wheel turns in the same direction so all good so far.

 

I will be interested to see how quiet or otherwise the new diff is, the titan diff center was very quiet gear and bearing wise but it had some amazing clunks in it.  I am pretty sure it wasn't going to last much longer.

 

20230311_182028.jpg

20230311_182052.jpg

Edited by Drakman
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Nice work! I haven't yet motivated to install the new Tracsport diff... and I imagine it'll be more involved than the original install, when I hadn't yet built out the rest of the rear end of the car. What did you need to remove, and what was able to stay in place, if you don't mind me asking?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi Blake,

 

It was a little more involved than i first thought, mostly because i did it on a "Belly hoist"  (not high enough to stand under) but with help from my wife and son it all went well.

 

Start with the hand brake on and get under and remove the propshaft bolts. then wheels off.  Suck or drain the oil out.

 

I removed the 2 brake caliper bolts (watch out for the 2 alloy spacers) and cable tied the caliper to the shock spring just clear of the disc, my car has solid brake lines. 

 

 Remove the "A" frame (easy) and ARB if you have one.

 

On the right hand side hub mount remove the speedo sensor (check the spacing from the pick up so you can put it back the same)

 

The handbrake cable goes through a steel mount on the RHS of the diff housing, back off the adjuster and bend the steel mount so you can get the cable out.

 

There are 6 bolts that hold the axle/hub but only the 4 that go through the De Dion tube need to be removed, the back 4 are the ones you want.  2 are bolts with nylock nuts. fiddley but easy. 

 

Now once the alloy hub mounts come loose, reach in and grab the inner CV and pull it out of the diff while supporting the disc and hub, place it out of the way and do the same on the other side.

 

At this stage the only thing holding the diff in are the top through bolt and the 2, 8 mm socket head bolts at the pinion end of the diff.  I loosened all  of them and then used a big screwdriver to push the top bolt out leaving the screw driver holding the weight.  This is where you might/will need help, remove the 2 socket head bolts while supporting the diff and have someone remove the screwdriver the diff WILL come down past the De Dion tube, you might have to move the pinion end in toward the prop shaft. 

 

Now, there are SPACING washers everywhere, take PHOTOS of how many and where they are so you can refit them in the right place.  The washer/spacers are the character building part of the whole job, read that as PITA.

 

I don't think i missed anything, please jump in add correct me if i have.

 

Good Luck

Dave

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3 hours ago, Drakman said:

Hi Blake,

 

It was a little more involved than i first thought, mostly because i did it on a "Belly hoist"  (not high enough to stand under) but with help from my wife and son it all went well.

 

Start with the hand brake on and get under and remove the propshaft bolts. then wheels off.  Suck or drain the oil out.

 

I removed the 2 brake caliper bolts (watch out for the 2 alloy spacers) and cable tied the caliper to the shock spring just clear of the disc, my car has solid brake lines. 

 

 Remove the "A" frame (easy) and ARB if you have one.

 

On the right hand side hub mount remove the speedo sensor (check the spacing from the pick up so you can put it back the same)

 

The handbrake cable goes through a steel mount on the RHS of the diff housing, back off the adjuster and bend the steel mount so you can get the cable out.

 

There are 6 bolts that hold the axle/hub but only the 4 that go through the De Dion tube need to be removed, the back 4 are the ones you want.  2 are bolts with nylock nuts. fiddley but easy. 

 

Now once the alloy hub mounts come loose, reach in and grab the inner CV and pull it out of the diff while supporting the disc and hub, place it out of the way and do the same on the other side.

 

At this stage the only thing holding the diff in are the top through bolt and the 2, 8 mm socket head bolts at the pinion end of the diff.  I loosened all  of them and then used a big screwdriver to push the top bolt out leaving the screw driver holding the weight.  This is where you might/will need help, remove the 2 socket head bolts while supporting the diff and have someone remove the screwdriver the diff WILL come down past the De Dion tube, you might have to move the pinion end in toward the prop shaft. 

 

Now, there are SPACING washers everywhere, take PHOTOS of how many and where they are so you can refit them in the right place.  The washer/spacers are the character building part of the whole job, read that as PITA.

 

I don't think i missed anything, please jump in add correct me if i have.

 

Good Luck

Dave

Stop stop, you're giving me flashbacks!

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