360S S3 "Yellowjacket" Build in Upstate SC

[jimmylukeii]

Looking good.  During my build, my buddy introduced me to the most effective tool: the BFH.

 

That's Big F*cking Hammer.  Rubber preferably!

[Yoram]

4 hours ago, UglyFast said:

Upstate you say!  Lol. Happy to come help, or just bring coffee and stare in silent admiration. 

 

Looking very good so far. 

 

Thank you!!  You are welcome to stop by anytime - just let me know.  Cold beer is always available even though the admiration will quickly dissipate...  

[Yoram]

3 hours ago, jimmylukeii said:

Looking good.  During my build, my buddy introduced me to the most effective tool: the BFH.

 

That's Big F*cking Hammer.  Rubber preferably!

 

Hahaha.  Thanks!  The bar needed more impact than a mallet could provide... that's why the hard wood....  

[GTIspirit]

On 12/8/2022 at 1:44 PM, Yoram said:

A few more unload pics  --  sorry didn't have these handy for the initial post.

 

"Kit Tower" crate on pallet jack barely squeezing under standard 7' garage door.  Standard 27" wide pallet jack works for both this and engine crate.

 

 

 

CBU crate unload sequence:

 

1.  Winch onto flatbed tow truck:

 

 

 

2.  Slide onto rolling frame (all casters must have brakes!):

 

 

 

3.  Roll into and position in garage (all casters must swivel!):

 

 

 

 

 

Those crates look awfully big for such a small car!

[Yoram]

23Dec22 Update

 

Hello folks,

 

This will be a minor one.  Not a whole bunch happened since the last update due to my primary garage focus being diverted to post-acquisition repairs and prep of our new(er) schlepping and occasional Yellowjacket towing vehicle, a low mileage 2008 Volvo XC70.  That included replacing the rear springs (rust), eliminating a headlight washer plumbing leak, replacing driver side headlight assembly, and (important!) installing a trailer tow bar and wiring kit.  All good.

 

Back to Yellowjacket:

 

Heeding Josh Robbins' invaluable advice, I decided to leave the engine-gearbox double marriage (to each other and to the chassis) for once the car can be rolled around the garage.  So after adding the front brake lines, I proceeded to install the track day roll-over bar and the handbrake lever assembly, and did some planning for the next step of propshaft and diff.

 

Highs and Lows:

 

Front Brake Lines:

First just an obvious tip:  To make it easier to line up the fixed brake pipes with the braided hoses I removed the outermost zip ties tying the pipes to the chassis.  I also loosened the bolt holding the little brake line manifold to let it "find its place".  Tighten it back after "final" bending of the pipes and tightening of the fittings.

 

 

 

Yellowjacket has the standard brakes (remarkably fixed calipers nevertheless!); I found in my kit two pairs of slightly different brake hose/caliper "adaptors", both with apparently same thread types/sizes (don't ask me what they are):

 

 

 

I decided to use the gray ones as they leave a bit more thread length on either side after tightening.

 

The real issue is with the copper washer between the "adaptor" and caliper.  The only pair that came with the kit does not work -- ID too big, OD too small.

I found a size that fits a bit better from my Amazon copper washer assortment on hand, but still not optimal (ID still a bit too big, and thickness smaller than the kit one).  See the initial eccentric position of the kit washer (before getting discarded) and dimensional comparison:

 

 

 

 

Waiting for more feedback from Denver...

 

 

Track Day Roll-Over Bar:

Y'all know that the upper mount bolts of the rear suspension coil-overs need to come out to insert from below the bolts into the threaded boss of the main hoop.

That's part of the reason the roll bar went up now rather than after the rear suspension.  The other reason is that it provides a stable rear hoist point should I decide to move the entire incomplete car in the garage with the engine hoist and strap.

This went in remarkably easily.

 

 

 

The overall dimensional control between the bar and the chassis (in my case) is actually remarkable.  But still, here is a lame tip I'm sure most of you figured out:  The thread in the boss at the bottom of the main hoop (which takes the bolt from below) may not quite line up with the hole in the chassis.  The solution is leverage it to line up by a conical punch from underneath while tightening the smaller flange bolt (see arrow).  It will hold the boss aligned and ready for its bolt.

 

 

 

 

Handbrake Lever Assembly:

Inserting the two bolts and nuts to secure the lever base/bracket to the tunnel (rearmost couple barely visible at left edge of pic) is a Royal PIA.  Make sure to have a few first aid bandaids handy and the garage radio turned up loud.  After a bloody fight to insert the bolts, I got each to bite into the nut by holding the nut in vise grips and loosely dangling it to line up with the bolt axis...  A diabolical design.  I suspect there are cleverer ways to perform this...

 

 

 

But here is something that left me speechless:  We all recall Sir Colin's decree "No Washer Shall Get A Free Ride", right?

Well, I counted 7 (!) washers between the two clevis pins!  And clearly that is only because the pins themselves are too long, which compounds gravely the weight penalty. Truly shocking.

 

By the way, my handbrake lever has 2 clevis pin holes, which I hadn't found mentioned anywhere.  The advice from Denver is to use the bottom one (quicker action).  I suspect the top one is to add lightness...

 

 

 

 

And finally, for now, the most good and bad part:

I got my own (not Yellowjacket's) spine nerve passage ground out this morning in outpatient surgery (I offered to bring the Dremel tool to reduce my cost but they declined because they were not sure it was sterile).  Seems to have gone quite well but the bad part is there will be no serious build going on for the next 4 weeks, just some light out of order futzing.  That sucks.

 

Cheers and Happy Holidays to y'all !

 

Next update next year.

 

-Yoram

 

 

[UglyFast]

Good stuff update. Good work. 

[MV8]

The sealing washer won't have a close fit to the fitting since it necks down in the seal seat area. It looks like the copper washer spec'd by AP is 14.2x10.2x2.0mm but the amazon washer should be fine. AP adapter fitting CP-2554-108, M10-1.0 flat seal to 3/8-24UNF 37deg.

Paint masking tape the nut and washer to the end of a paint stick. Pre-fit the bolt by breaking through the tape into the nut before installation. After a full turn, tear off the tape and stick.

[Rosteri]

Also my strong recommendation to soften the sealing copper washers before final install - heat them glowing red (happens fast) with a small butane torch (a piano wire or old screwdriver works great to hold it in the flame) and drop glowing red into a cup of water. The copper washers sold today just aren't as soft as they used to be.

[Yoram]

8 hours ago, MV8 said:

The sealing washer won't have a close fit to the fitting since it necks down in the seal seat area. It looks like the copper washer spec'd by AP is 14.2x10.2x2.0mm but the amazon washer should be fine. AP adapter fitting CP-2554-108, M10-1.0 flat seal to 3/8-24UNF 37deg.

I looked into this some more, following a key pointer from Josh Robbins. The fitting has a small "ridge" on the caliper side between the hex and the neck-down - sorry for the crappy pic. The ridge is supposed to locate the ID of the washer. I measured the diameter of the ridge and it is just about 10.0 mm even.  The Amazon washer ID is 10.2 mm, same as the AP one.

 

 

So... I disassembled both sides and installed carefully a new Amazon washer on each side making sure it is concentric around the ridge.  They fit perfectly and sit flat between the hex and the caliper, so the problem is solved.  I don't like the 1 mm thickness of the Amazon washer but the height of the ridge is about 0.5 mm or less, so it does not "short" the washer.  I will try though to get hold of the AP washers.

 

 

[Yoram]

11 hours ago, MV8 said:

Paint masking tape the nut and washer to the end of a paint stick. Pre-fit the bolt by breaking through the tape into the nut before installation. After a full turn, tear off the tape and stick.

 

 

I assume this refers to the handbrake assembly.  Genius!  Will remember this for similar situations.  Thank you! 

[Yoram]

3 hours ago, Rosteri said:

Also my strong recommendation to soften the sealing copper washers before final install - heat them glowing red (happens fast) with a small butane torch (a piano wire or old screwdriver works great to hold it in the flame) and drop glowing red into a cup of water. The copper washers sold today just aren't as soft as they used to be.

1.  Another reason to go with the original 2 mm rather than my 1 mm Amazon thickness.

 

2.  I'm not a copper metallurgist, but why drop into water rather than just cool down naturally?  Sounds like hardening rather than annealing?

[SENC]

1 hour ago, Yoram said:

1.  Another reason to go with the original 2 mm rather than my 1 mm Amazon thickness.

 

2.  I'm not a copper metallurgist, but why drop into water rather than just cool down naturally?  Sounds like hardening rather than annealing?

You can cool in the air or water - cooling in water is just quicker than waiting - and for the purpose of removing work hardening and brittleness in copper washers works just as well 

[Rosteri]

Yes, air cooling is fine, but the faster you cool it, the softer it gets. It is totally against everything we have learned with steel…

 

It took me a few dripping connections (in very bad places) to start doing this.   I’m sure you can still get quality washers, that are soft to begin with, but I am usually satisfied when I find the right size! 

[MV8]

I anneal them too if I need to reuse them; using a hand torch and hanging the washers on a piece of stainless safety wire. I was in the same boat initially, thinking of ferrous metals but I didn't find any difference in hardness from cooling methods. I quench because it is so much fun (I take it where I can get it).

[Dave W]

Copper is the opposite of steel, quenching will softens and slow cooling will harden.

[Yoram]

Thanks guys for the helpful insights into copper annealing... interesting how we all would zero in and deep dive into a seemingly minor point (but useful if you want to be able to stop using only tire/road friction).

 

So the remaining question I have is does anyone know how I can get (or has to sell) a few copper washers that are 10.2 mm on the ID, 2 mm thick and at least 14.2 mm on the OD?  I will conduct another search through the kit but it will need to wait as I'm not supposed to bend or lift for a while.

And you can never have too many caliper washers on hand...

 

Merry Christmas!

 

 

Edited December 25, 2022 by Yoram
typo

[MV8]

2mm is unusually thick. Dorman sells a copper brake washer 10 pack (HW9453-10) that is listed as 0.393" x 0.67" x 1.63mm or you could try washers made for 10mm brake banjo fittings.

[Yoram]

1 hour ago, MV8 said:

2mm is unusually thick. Dorman sells a copper brake washer 10 pack (HW9453-10) that is listed as 0.393" x 0.67" x 1.63mm or you could try washers made for 10mm brake banjo fittings.

Thanks!  Per your info 2 mm is the thickness of the original AP washer (which I can't find in my kit), that's why I "spec'ed" it.  The ID of the Dorman washer looks like a snug fit which may help keep it in place when installing.  1.63 mm thickness is way better than my Amazon 1.0 mm.

Would you need to anneal the Dorman washers before use?

[MV8]

I think any, mass produced sealing washer would benefit from annealing. Better sealing at lower fastener torque.

Like anything mass produced, there is a tolerance so the dims will vary.

[Yoram]

Hi folks,

 

I'm not able yet to make any real progress, however here are two "lite" updates:

 

1.  The world famous copper washer conundrum:

I ordered and picked up from O'Reilly what I believe is the Dorman 10-pack that @MV8 mentioned.  They call it "BrakeBest Copper Gasket BHH H9453".  I guess the part number is the tell tale.  The actual measurements are OD=15.7mm, ID=9.8mm, T=1.65mm, and these also match closely with the ones @MV8listed, so this should be it.  Unfortunately these don't work because the ID doesn't clear the little ridge on the fitting.  So I reinstalled my Amazon washers after annealing and will keep them unless I find something thicker or if they leak.

 

2.  Track rod end:

A warranty replacement piece arrived just in time to serve as my #1 Christmas present...  It installed with no issues and both sides are now torqued.

 

The next step will be the diff (of course after the propshaft is in the tunnel).  I envision asking a few questions about parking brake cable attachments, among other things.  Unfortunately this is still a few weeks away.

 

Wishing y'all Happy New Year!