wdb's little yellow journey

[Croc]

16 hours ago, wdb said:

 

This is turning into more of a project than I first imagined.

 

Yes, been there many times before.  In a few too many cars, I have started one project only to descend into full rebuild territory because things just cascaded.  Welcome to old cars!  

 

Keep the spirits up and push through.  You will get to the other side.  

[wdb]

Thanks for the encouragement. I was texting with friends this morning and said that "this car is proof that bad things happen when a car isn't driven". The poor thing has sat still most of its life, and now that I've put miles on it all of the stuff that stuck, rotted, and dried out during that time is making itself known. The more I think about it the less surprised I am. Besides, now I get to put more cool stuff on my car. 

[IamScotticus]

I am in a similar situation with a car that I let sit for 10+ years.  Partly due to a minor accident that would have required skill sets I didn't have to repair, partly due to the the current life events at the time.  It was just easier to store the car for better days to come.   The sad thing is I was in my prime with plenty of energy and brain cells to do the work.  Better days finally came 11 years later.  Much can change in 11 years and not all better.  Now, the ravages of neglect have created a lengthy punch out list of repairs required.  I have read of many 7s that became sleeping projects.  Lar's 7 @Vinman1 restored is a prime example. 

I call it the curse, and am convinced there are hundreds of 7s languishing in barns and gareges everywhere.

I am a perfect example of everything I critcise.  I just don't want anyone to go through lengthy delays like I have. 

Today, the most I can accomplish are small projects, one at a time, when I can work them in around the honey-dos, time off work and moments of clarity wirh everything firing.

Edited April 30, 2023 by IamScotticus

[wdb]

I finally pulled the oil pan off so I can change over to the fabricated pan. The oil pickup tube was a total BEAR to get out; I ended up gashing it up with a pipe wrench after all other attempts failed to move it a millimeter. It will still work but it's ugly.

 

Now I find myself in a situation however. The fabricated oil pan came with an oil pickup that doesn't seem quite right to me. As can be seen in the pictures, it is at a bit of an odd angle. Also it doesn't reach as deep into the pan as I think it should, based on the old pickup at any rate. The pan depth at the pickup is about 6-3/4" but the pickup only goes down about 5-1/2". The old pickup was more like 6-1/2" into the pan.  Secondly, what should I do about the overflow/pressure release tube? Should that also reach to the bottom of the pan, or is a shorter tube sufficient? I should note that the original pan was deep at the front, while the new pan is deep at the rear. If I need an overflow tube to reach back there it will be quite long and curvy. 

 

First picture is the old pickup and overpressure tube. The others are the new pickup.

Edited May 2, 2023 by wdb

[MV8]

Not an ideal situation for either tube. I don't know how much effort you want to put into this if not racing or if you can weld and fabricate or have someone that can.

The relief valve should rarely open. The flow without the tube would hit the crank and aerate the oil. It can be shortened. The tube must be secured against vibration but removable. It can be clamped to the feed tube or to a tab under the main cap bolt head. The hardware needs to be locked with tabs, prevailing torque nuts (not a nyloc), or safety wired.

The feed tube can be hung off the main caps to be as long as needed to reach the deepest part of the pan.

Quick and easy would be to clamp the tubes together with two, steel, uncushioned clamps and locking hardware. I'd shorten the relief tube to the main cap height.

I like the new pickup better as the tube is much closer to the screen. The angle is not critical or ideal

Edited May 2, 2023 by MV8

[Vinman1]

My engine builder tells me the pick up should be 1/8 to 1/4 from the deepest part of the sump. I currently have an aluminum front sump pan from Ivey Engines that is a great quality wet sump track pan, however, sits too low for road use. I am going to change it this week to a stock, front sump pan I had modified for ground clearance. I also have stock rear sump pan from a Capri, that needs the bottom replaced due to rust holes. I am curious as to where you got your rear sump? Your photos and questions are very helpful.  Thanks for posting.

 

V

[wdb]

On 5/2/2023 at 10:41 AM, MV8 said:

Not an ideal situation for either tube. I don't know how much effort you want to put into this if not racing or if you can weld and fabricate or have someone that can.

The relief valve should rarely open. The flow without the tube would hit the crank and aerate the oil. It can be shortened. The tube must be secured against vibration but removable. It can be clamped to the feed tube or to a tab under the main cap bolt head. The hardware needs to be locked with tabs, prevailing torque nuts (not a nyloc), or safety wired.

The feed tube can be hung off the main caps to be as long as needed to reach the deepest part of the pan.

Quick and easy would be to clamp the tubes together with two, steel, uncushioned clamps and locking hardware. I'd shorten the relief tube to the main cap height.

I like the new pickup better as the tube is much closer to the screen. The angle is not critical or ideal

The stock tube is quite long enough to reach nearly the bottom of the pan. The screen is spring loaded and although I did not reinstall to verify I'm 99.997% certain the screen sits hard against the bottom of the sump, under spring tension.

 

Both stock tubes are press fit into the block. I'll make sure I have a good fit for the relief tube. I have a piece of brake line that should do the trick. Thanks for the information on its length.

 

The fabricated pickup has a bracket that mates up to a threaded hole in the center rib of the block, so that should be secure once all is said and done. It needs to drop about an inch though to be near enough to the bottom of the sump. I think I have some room to play, as it hits the back edge of the sump baffle opening as it stands. I should be able to bend it forward and gain some depth.

[wdb]

In other news I visited Ray at r.d. enterprises again this morning and picked up some more bits. I have what I need to fully button up the gearbox now, which I'll do later today. Sadly his Elan shift lever will not work for my purposes.

 

We also did some sleuthing on a supposed Cortina limited slip differential I bought on eBay. It does indeed appear to be a Cortina unit, because the axle splines are right and the ring gear fitting is a match. He says it would fit an Elan as well because the differential on both cars are interchangeable. It's a clutch pack type differential, but neither of us has any way of knowing what sort of lockup, slip percentage, etc. it might provide. None of it matters to me because I can't use it in my Italia rear no matter what. If you know someone who might be interested in it, I'm very flexible on terms. I'd like to see it get used somewhere.

[wdb]

3 hours ago, Vinman1 said:

My engine builder tells me the pick up should be 1/8 to 1/4 from the deepest part of the sump. I currently have an aluminum front sump pan from Ivey Engines that is a great quality wet sump track pan, however, sits too low for road use. I am going to change it this week to a stock, front sump pan I had modified for ground clearance. I also have stock rear sump pan from a Capri, that needs the bottom replaced due to rust holes. I am curious as to where you got your rear sump? Your photos and questions are very helpful.  Thanks for posting.

 

V

I'd love to hear/see more about your modified sump. Did you go wider and shallower? Baffles? Etc.

 

I'm still working out where the fabricated sump originated. The entire outer surface is made from 1/8" steel plate, with thinner material inside for baffling. It's a beast. I'll take some detailed pictures and post them up.

[MoBoost]

8 hours ago, Vinman1 said:

…I currently have an aluminum front sump pan from Ivey Engines that is a great quality wet sump track pan, however, sits too low for road use….

Could you please post some photos of this oil pan? My baffled, front sump pan from Dave Bean many years ago is not totally effective. I’ve heard about an oil pan from Ivey, but don’t know any specifics. Distance from ground to bottom of my sump is 3.5”. Thanks!

[Vinman1]

This is the pan. Has a really nice four way baffle system. Note that, although wider, it is the same height as a stock pan, meaning you will not gain any ground clearance. That is why it is best for track use, or maybe a car that sits higher than mine. The guys at Ivey are great and were a lot of help. Many more photos of this pan on their web site https://iveyengines.com/parts/ I will probably sell mine since I don't see me swapping it back for track days.

[wdb]

I promised some pics of the fabricated sump. Here you go. 

 

 

[IamScotticus]

wow!  beautiful work.

My pan is similar,  a wedge, rear floor even with the bell housing.  It doubles as a skid plate, LOL.

Do a hand crank with the pan on top to ensure the rod bolts dont hit anything. 

Edited May 4, 2023 by IamScotticus

[Vinman1]

Looks great, I like the baffle set set up. Did you make it?

[MV8]

Those are both nice pans. When tweaking to adjust the pickup to pan clearance, wrap the pickup in foil or slip over a zip lock bag, then add a lump of playdoh or modeling clay from the crafts store to mash with the pan. Same concept as plasti-guage for plain bearings.

[wdb]

We didn't have any modeling clay in the household so I taped a felt pad to the pan and tweaked the pickup until I could feel it touch the pad when I lowered the pan onto it (the engine is inverted in the stand). Worked a treat. Final resting place is more centered in the hole in the sump baffle, with the pickup pipe (not the screen) about 1/2" off the deck. That is really close to where the stock setup was.

 

I read an interesting story while researching pickup depth. Some fellow with a high output V8, high volume oil pump, and a stamped steel pan was generating enough suction to pull the pan up! The flexing eventually caused it to split. 

 

Next I need to find a way to increase the diameter of the pickup at the other end; that end rattles around inside the hole in the block. I'm hoping some heat and a shaft of appropriate diameter will let me expand the tube and give me a tighter fit. As it is the pump will suck air from around the outside of the pipe. 

 

After that I'll be figuring out the  dipstick. It needs to move from the front of the engine to the back. I took plenty of depth readings on that as well, so I know how deep I want the oil to be in the sump. And there is a hole in the block the block for the dipstick, thankfully! There are pipe diameters to deal with there as well.

 

Small steps.

[MV8]

Rattles is a very broad reference. Depending on how loose it is, an adjustable depth, ball bearing type bead roller can easily make a press fit near the end but a sleeve the length of the block bore would better support the pickup. Fit can change with engine temp plus the vibration and potential to hit something spinning. Both tubes should be secured/stabilized like the original pickup. The bypass pipe  should not rely entirely on a cantilever press fit.    

Edited May 5, 2023 by MV8

[wdb]

The bypass pipe was purely a press fit before, as was the pickup pipe. Both would probably have been stopped from falling completely out by them hitting the bottom of the pan first. The pickup pipe also had that nifty spring-loaded screen on the end. 

 

The new pickup has a fixing bracket and bolt, which I hope to secure with safety wire.  I am also going to see if I can use a piece of the old pickup tube as a sleeve; there is enough extra room to make that a possibility. I should be able to set the length of the bypass tube so that it can't fall all the way out. Both pipes looked to have some black permatex type stuff on them so I plan to add a wee bit of that as well.

[wdb]

I have successfully relocated the dipstick, hurrah! I found some nifty stuff, CRC Freeze Off, which allowed me to chill the old dipstick tube enough to work it out of the front cover pretty easily. I bought a piece of 3/8" fuel line with flared ends and used that as a new dipstick tube. A long piece of 1/4" threaded rod and some other bits let me press the new dipstick in at exactly the depth I wanted. A small victory!

 

I still am working out the oil pickup tube though. My first attempt at expanding slightly was not a success. At least I didn't break anything.

 

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by wdb

[wdb]

The oil pan is on! I had to make a few tweaks to bolt holes, and I had to invent my own gasket, so we will see how that all goes. But it's on.

 

Next I need to rig up a more appropriate way to hoist the engine; with the transmission hanging on it this time my former method won't cut the mustard.

 

 

Edited May 13, 2023 by wdb