Lotus 7 Project Arrived

[Christopher smith]

MV8- Any details on that "boiled linseed oil" treatment? Boiled linseed was used in lots of solvent based paints ( the kind you can thin with paint thinner, generic term is Alkyd). That sounds like a great hydrophobic way to go to make sure water does not condense inside tubes with high humidity or rain and keep it from rusting the steel surface. But I think it would be too viscous to spray without special equipment. Maybe thinned with solvent like paint thinner? Very high pressure spray? I recall seeing adverts in various British car magazines for a treatment called Waxoyl. Any 7 guys used it here in the USA? Would WD40 be just as good sprayed in old, unused rivet holes with the wand?

[SENC]

1 hour ago, Christopher smith said:

MV8- Any details on that "boiled linseed oil" treatment? Boiled linseed was used in lots of solvent based paints ( the kind you can thin with paint thinner, generic term is Alkyd). That sounds like a great hydrophobic way to go to make sure water does not condense inside tubes with high humidity or rain and keep it from rusting the steel surface. But I think it would be too viscous to spray without special equipment. Maybe thinned with solvent like paint thinner? Very high pressure spray? I recall seeing adverts in various British car magazines for a treatment called Waxoyl. Any 7 guys used it here in the USA? Would WD40 be just as good sprayed in old, unused rivet holes with the wand?

BLO has some thinner already (metal thinners to aid drying that are added when the oil is heated), but to your point probably needs further thinning to be sprayable.  Turpentine is the traditional thinner for BLO (in woodworking), but white spirits or mineral spirits would work as well.

 

Linseed oil and tung oil are among the very few "drying oils", meaning they actually do cure to a dry film.  Other oils, whether vegetable-based like canola, or mineral-based, don't fully dry and remain in a fluid state (to some degree).  The downside to LO (and tung oil) is a very long drying/curing time, so adding the drier additives and heating reduces cure time for linseed from 30+ days to just a few.

Edited August 10, 2023 by SENC

[MV8]

Waxoyl is much thicker. Linseed is about the same thickness as deck oil or house paint. I've not tried spraying it but a plug in the end of a gallon hand pump sprayer wand, drilled around the radius with holes should work to coat with the excess to run out. I coat all my yard tool handles with it. It has also been used in a bucket of sand for oiling spaded tools. I've also used it on leather.

 

One good use for waxoyl is coating rivets before popping in place to aid sealing.

 

Low cost Waxoyl recipes:
1) two toilet to floor sealing rings (about a $1 each) dissolved in one gallon of mineral spirits. Add one quart of non-detergent engine oil. Adjust amount of spirits for desired consistency.
2) Some use turpentine instead of mineral spirits.
3) 12 oz bees wax dissolved in 2.5 quarts of turpentine. Add 1 quart light machine oil.

[Dave W]

To coat the inside of my frame tubes, I used Finish Feeder, which is a beeswax and turpentine mixture. I then added 50% boiled linseed oil to the beeswax and turpentine. You will probably need less than a cup to do a complete frame.  To apply I just used what looks like a long gun cleaning rod, to run through the tubes. I would coat everything at one time, because the mixture will set-up after about a month. 

[ianashdown]

This is what I was thinking of using. 

It seems to come with all the right accessories needed to coat the inside of long-ish tubes.  I generally like 3M products.  I don't imagine this would 'fix' the rivet tails that rattle around inside the tubes, still need to find some way to deal with that.  I was thinking about injecting a little resin when they are all tipped in to a tube end.  I'm going to try and and get out what I can with a vacuum cleaner first.

[ianashdown]

Looking ahead, as I'm prone to doing, it seems inevitable that I'm going to need to replace much of the Aluminium skinning on the car.  The Scuttle and maybe the Hood could be reused, which would be nice as it'll keep some of the patina of the car.  It doesn't seem to make sense to get them from the UK because of the difficulties shipping them to California. so is there anyone in the US who is selling S2 Seven panels?  I don't have the equipment or skill to attempt this myself.

 

Ian

SoCal

[anduril3019]

Sorry if I missed this part of the discussion, but which tubes are we talking about here, and how are they being accessed? If doing repairs or building from scratch, there is access, but on a finished frame there aren't any open ended tubes. Are holes being drilled then capped? Are rivet holes being used? If spraying through small holes, it doesn't seem like you'd actually be getting good coverage on the interior. 

[ianashdown]

2 hours ago, anduril3019 said:

Sorry if I missed this part of the discussion, but which tubes are we talking about here, and how are they being accessed? If doing repairs or building from scratch, there is access, but on a finished frame there aren't any open ended tubes. Are holes being drilled then capped? Are rivet holes being used? If spraying through small holes, it doesn't seem like you'd actually be getting good coverage on the interior. 

This will be for the repair of an original chassis undergoing significant repair including some tube replacements and some additions.

 

The 3M product I think I’ll use has long spray tubes which sprays radially, not just straight out of the end.  I’ll be using any available rivet hole or other access point.  There will be some that I will not be able to access, but this car was stored in AZ and will be in CA for the foreseeable future, I’m not going to loose sleep.

 

Ian

[IamScotticus]

Loose rivet tails in frame tubes wouldn't be heard over all the louder sounds of engine, tire noise, wind buffetting, etc.

 

The formulas of cavity protection should have a viscous creeping property to spread and cover areas not directly applied.

Even if all you did was a small shot in every 5/32 rivet hole, it should spread,  if that formula has that property.

 

I heard something about rust prevention "cubes".  I didn't get enough info to get a trade name and I haven't found anything yet.  The prospect of a loose solid granular substance doing the protection is interesting to me.

[Christopher smith]

I see there are quite a few videos about rust prevention materials and methods in cavities. Some of the wands seem to have wider tips at the ends so may not fit through rivet holes. I guess you could always drill more holes and put rivets in after treatment but the drilling cuts through any protective paint layer so that may be a concern. In any case those of us in the Northeast are very wary of winter driving with all the salt on the roads and even rain scares some of us for various reasons. Save that scuttle as they look very difficult to fabricate. I was lucky. The bonnet is not that bad to fabricate and floor pans and sides are easy. Rear wrap around is not too bad also. I used 3003 H14 for any parts needing a bend, but a harder alloy for a strong floor pan. For tight bends the trick is to apply a coat of carbon black using oxy-acetylene running very rich (no oxygen). Next you use a more typical flame, heating just enough to burn off the carbon and let it cool. That seems to soften the alloy just enough to allow easy forming in areas needing that.

[MV8]

I suggest getting a few small sheets of the material and thickness you plan to use,  to tinker with bending to get a feel for it including annealing. A hand bottle torch has enough btu to anneal but the cone is not optimum for that. I've used black magic markers for the area that needs to be softened, then heat those areas with a constantly moving torch until they disappear. If bending around a frame member, the sheet should be lightly clamped with wood (such as a 2x4) along the length of the bend to the member to control where it bends. Any cuts should end at a drilled hole or radius to minimize the chance or cracking later. I prefer 3003-h14 .050".  If not bending at all, go with a harder material, same thickness. N "non-structural" rivets work well and are cost effective from aircraft spruce as is the 3003. 

 

You may end up welding a small area together where the sides meet the rear sheet covered by the rear fenders. Butted with a doubler with two rows of rivets or lapping with a joggle/offset/step bend edge would be an alternative if it were not a dedicated resto.

Edited August 12, 2023 by MV8

[Christopher smith]

2 hours ago, MV8 said:

I suggest getting a few small sheets of the material and thickness you plan to use,  to tinker with bending to get a feel for it including annealing. A hand bottle torch has enough btu to anneal but the cone is not optimum for that. I've used black magic markers for the area that needs to be softened, then heat those areas with a constantly moving torch until they disappear. If bending around a frame member, the sheet should be lightly clamped with wood (such as a 2x4) along the length of the bend to the member to control where it bends. Any cuts should end at a drilled hole or radius to minimize the chance or cracking later. I prefer 3003-h14 .050".  If not bending at all, go with a harder material, same thickness. N "non-structural" rivets work well and are cost effective from aircraft spruce as is the 3003. 

 

You may end up welding a small area together where the sides meet the rear sheet covered by the rear fenders. Butted with a doubler with two rows of rivets or lapping with a joggle/offset/step bend edge would be an alternative if it were not a dedicated resto.

I have a fairly large sheet of 3003H14 0.040 and would be happy to snip a few small pieces and stick them in the mail for anyone wanting to practice.

[ianashdown]

Life, work etc has prevented much progress recently, but I was able to get the frame out to be sandblasted, just to reveal all the damage and corruption!

 

I have a little work to do!!  Here is a Dropbox link to some photos.  https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/5fbxp9y40ukjkayj2pfzt/h?rlkey=onfns980zq7ivg173lpv5hti3&dl=0

 

Please let me know if the link doesn't work.  All thoughts, suggestions, sympathies or donations  are welcome!!

 

Ian

SoCal

[Anaximander]

Ian,

What an incredible labor of love it will take to get this car somewhat near what it was like in 1961. I was living in SoCal and in 1966 almost pulled the trigger on a Lotus 7, I think it was like a 1962? and my father said that I would be crazy to drive it on the LA Freeways even back then before they were so congested. I instead got a red 1964 TR4 and zoomed around SoCal in that.

 

After all these years, it is terrific to see someone with patience take on such a challenging task to rehab it to a driveable state. Much good luck with the rebuild!

[azfast1]

Thanks for sharing! What a fun project, If I were a lot younger, I would have bought it!

[ianashdown]

12 minutes ago, Anaximander said:

Ian,

What an incredible labor of love it will take to get this car somewhat near what it was like in 1961. I was living in SoCal and in 1966 almost pulled the trigger on a Lotus 7, I think it was like a 1962? and my father said that I would be crazy to drive it on the LA Freeways even back then before they were so congested. I instead got a red 1964 TR4 and zoomed around SoCal in that.

 

After all these years, it is terrific to see someone with patience take on such a challenging task to rehab it to a driveable state. Much good luck with the rebuild!

I agree with your father!  This is not a car for LA Freeways.  I’m in south Orange County and PCH or some mountain roads will be more my style!

 

The frame is a bit of a mess, some of the aluminum panels are too rough to think about re-using, but some will be re-used and will add a look of period authenticity.  Most of the mechanical parts seem to be in good shape, so they will be refreshed and rebuilt, but as many of the original parts as possible will be used.

 

It’ll be fun for sure!

 

Ian

[ianashdown]

12 minutes ago, azfast1 said:

Thanks for sharing! What a fun project, If I were a lot younger, I would have bought it!

I’m wondering if I’m too old or just too stupid! 

[MV8]

Thanks for sharing those pics!  

 

[ianashdown]

I’m ready to place an order for the steel tubing to repair the chassis and it seems CDS (Cold Drawn Seamless) is not so easy to find.  Does anyone know of a supplier in the LA or San Diego area?  
 

I don’t think CDS exists for square or rectangular tubing, what is the best choice to use, DOM?

 

Thanks,

 

Ian

[toldfield]

I use Industrial Metal Supply in Sun Valley, near Burbank.  They are pretty helpful and know metal.  If that doesn't work let me know and I can track down a friend who knows where to find any metal.

 

https://www.industrialmetalsupply.com/

 

 

 

 

tom

Edited October 11, 2023 by toldfield
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