1986 Caterham BDR, a new old car

[Wayne Stambaugh]

This afternoon I started preparing the engine for removal. This is the first time I ever worked on a car this age with no grease and grime. It is truly like a new car. Even the exhaust nuts unscrewed with my fingers after the initial breaking loose with a wrench. It’s a pleasure to work on. Things get a little tight but never was a problem. I did notice the probably 20 pound Lucas starter. The starters I have been using in LS and small block Chevys are half the weight of this Lucas. Surely there are some better options out there. You can see what I have gotten done today and tomorrow I’ll continue and remove the alternator the oil and filter, hoses to the oil cooler, clutch cable, etc. I hope to lift it out tomorrow afternoon. 

[pethier]

On 10/24/2023 at 7:13 AM, Wayne Stambaugh said:

Doesn’t look like there is any more there but I may not be understanding the adjustment. I’ll loosen it up tonight and see if I can get a little more but I’m thinking I need at least an inch more.

 

OK, try this: 

Pry off the cap from the middle of the wheel.

 

Pay attention to the alignment of the wheel.  My car did not have a keyway ensuring the wheel only fits one way on the spline.

 

Loosen the big nut.  You may need an impact wrench.  Mine was really tight.

 

If the nut came all the way off, put it back on with your fingers several turns.

 

Get a stout puller and hook it up.  Tighten the puller.  The wheel will likely let go with a bang.  That's why you put the nut back on; to stop the wheel flying around.

 

Take off the nut and remove the wheel along with the "hub".

 

Take out the 9 screws and little nuts.

 

Take the trim ring and put it on the wrong side of the hub

 

Put the steering wheel on the wrong side of the hub.

 

Screw it all together.

 

Replace the hub in the car.

 

You can make a spacer to get the wheel even closer to the dash.  This also frees up the trim ring to be put back on the proper side of the hub.

 

I am in the process of using a spacer to get back most of the space lost by putting in a MotoLita-to-MotoLita  easy-off.   This only works because the center hole on a Moto-Lita is so big it easily clears the trigger ring on the easy-off.  If you try this, be sure you have a way to operate the trigger before test-fitting!  

 

In case I decide to do this the "right" way and weld the male end of the easy-off to the stock shaft, I will need to remove the shaft section, and I have hit an obstruction.

 

Not your problem, so I will post a help-wanted thread of my own.

[Wayne Stambaugh]

The engine is ready to pull. I don’t have my engine hoist in my garage so I need to bring it home and I’ll be really to pull it. Today I helped the son of the friend who originally owned my Caterham, clean out the storage unit the Caterham was in. I got really lucky. We thought we found all the Caterham parts last weekend but we were wrong. We found two Weber boxes each with new 40 DCOE carburettors in them. I haven’t studied them yet and I have no idea why he had an extra set. The tubes on these two are longer (I think) but other than that they look the same. I haven’t even started studying Weber DCOEs yet but with two new pairs surely I can get the car running. 

 

I have new silicone upper and lower radiator hoses to put on when I go back in with the engine. I’m going to replace all the heater hoses with silicone hoses so I hopefully won’t have to do it again. I’m a believer in stainless braided AN hose and plan to get the fittings for the carbs so I can use AN hose to plumb them. I don’t have an extra fuel pump and even if I did I would trust it not knowing its age. I’ll have to purchase a new one.

 

When I removed the clutch cable I found it to be smooth and very free. Even bent around at 180 degrees the cable was still loose and smooth. I’m under the impression that maybe the pressure plate and clutch have rusted themselves together. As I mentioned earlier, the clutch pedal was extremely hard to push. Engine and transmission separation will be one of the first thing I do when the engine hits the floor.    

 

Does anyone know if the color on the engine block is the correct and original color for a BDR 1.6? I have attached a picture to show the color. It reminds me of the color of my MGA/MGB engines I have worked on in the past.

[IamScotticus]

On 10/24/2023 at 7:13 AM, Wayne Stambaugh said:

Doesn’t look like there is any more there but I may not be understanding the adjustment. I’ll loosen it up tonight and see if I can get a little more but I’m thinking I need at least an inch more.

I did a wheel removal like this

https://usa7s.net/ips/topic/14316-steering-wheel-removal-splined-shaft/#comment-134404

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by IamScotticus

[pethier]

On 10/23/2023 at 11:40 PM, Wayne Stambaugh said:

I have figured out I have a problem when I’m in the car. The steering wheel is in the way of my left leg near my knee. I can turn a spacer on my lathe and drill the bolt hole circle and just set it out an 1” or so or maybe there is a quick change hub that would also bring the wheel back toward me. Anyone have any recommendations?

I came in late and misread what you are trying to do.  If you are trying to get the wheel closer to you, that is the opposite problem for me.  The wheel does not foul my legs at all when the wheel is close to the dashboard.  The answer is simple.  Buy the Lifeline Moto-Lita bolt-in easy-off.  Demon Tweeks stocks them.  Simple bolt-in and away you go.

 

You must have long legs and short arms.  I am the opposite.  I can get the seat back far enough in my 1991 1700 Super Sprint to just get by with the easy-off in, but then I can't reach the pedals properly.  But I need elbow room, so I either will do the reverse-spacer or get a little lathe and welding help on the top shaft.

 

I think the real answer for you is a smaller wheel.  I'd go for Momo as was suggested by sltous.  

 

I like the wheel closer to the dash.  Without the easy-off as I first drove the car, it is just about perfect. I have elbow room and the position feels right.  My right pinky falls onto the horn switch very nicely without taking my hand off the wheel.  Did I mention my car is RHD?  It has only been in the USA about a year.

 

Anyway, the Moto-Lita wheel does not bother me at all when driving.  When I had a Caterham before, I liked to drive with the top on.  I think I may have had a smaller wheel then, and I was younger.  The Moto-Lita is a bit in the way when entering/exiting with the top on.  The removable thing helps a lot.

 

I tested a Caterham with the smaller, and removable, MOMO wheel, and liked that just fine.  There were other reasons I passed up that car for this one.

[Wayne Stambaugh]

38 minutes ago, pethier said:

I came in late and misread what you are trying to do.  If you are trying to get the wheel closer to you, that is the opposite problem for me.  The wheel does not foul my legs at all when the wheel is close to the dashboard.  The answer is simple.  Buy the Lifeline Moto-Lita bolt-in easy-off.  Demon Tweeks stocks them.  Simple bolt-in and away you go.

 

You must have long legs and short arms.  I am the opposite.  I can get the seat back far enough in my 1991 1700 Super Sprint to just get by with the easy-off in, but then I can't reach the pedals properly.  But I need elbow room, so I either will do the reverse-spacer or get a little lathe and welding help on the top shaft.

 

I think the real answer for you is a smaller wheel.  I'd go for Momo as was suggested by sltous.  

 

I like the wheel closer to the dash.  Without the easy-off as I first drove the car, it is just about perfect. I have elbow room and the position feels right.  My right pinky falls onto the horn switch very nicely without taking my hand off the wheel.  Did I mention my car is RHD?  It has only been in the USA about a year.

 

Anyway, the Moto-Lita wheel does not bother me at all when driving.  When I had a Caterham before, I liked to drive with the top on.  I think I may have had a smaller wheel then, and I was younger.  The Moto-Lita is a bit in the way when entering/exiting with the top on.  The removable thing helps a lot.

 

I tested a Caterham with the smaller, and removable, MOMO wheel, and liked that just fine.  There were other reasons I passed up that car for this one.

My Motolita wheel is only about 10” in diameter so I certainly don’t want to go smaller. Yes, I want the wheel closer to me. Because of this I should also get a little more left leg clearance. I didn’t get a chance to do it this weekend but I plan to remove the slide adjusting rail underneath the seat and mount to seat directly to the flat bracket. I will have to get it in the right place because it won’t be adjustable but that’s not a problem. This will drop the seat height a full inch. I think this will be enough but if not I will drop the floor. 

 

 

[KnifeySpoony]

Most new caterhams come with a 260mm wheel which is significant smaller.

[theDreamer]

Wayne, if you haven't already done so you should check out some of youtube videos on this topic. Turn 7 in the UK have a number of good ones, (probably listed in video section of this site). This one is only 4 minutes long and points out a few things you need to know. It is on the S3 and SV but the main focus is on tall drivers and the exact problem you are having.

Enjoy.

 

[pethier]

2 hours ago, KnifeySpoony said:

Most new caterhams come with a 260mm wheel which is significant smaller.

260mm is about 10-1/4 inches.

 

My Moto-Lita is about 11-1/2 inches OD.

[IamScotticus]

Is a steering wheel diameter measured from the outer edge or the center of the rim?

[Wayne Stambaugh]

6 hours ago, theDreamer said:

Wayne, if you haven't already done so you should check out some of youtube videos on this topic. Turn 7 in the UK have a number of good ones, (probably listed in video section of this site). This one is only 4 minutes long and points out a few things you need to know. It is on the S3 and SV but the main focus is on tall drivers and the exact problem you are having.

Enjoy.

 

Thank you Dreamer! I’ll have a look as soon as I send this message. 

[theDreamer]

37 minutes ago, IamScotticus said:

Is a steering wheel diameter measured from the outer edge or the center of the rim?

 

O.D. Outside Diameter. In the case of a "D" shape or "Yoke" style steering wheel you measure across the width 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock positions.

[Wayne Stambaugh]

When I was removing parts from my BDR for engine for engine  removal I removed the mechanical fuel pump. Both the pressed in brass tubes the fuel hoses connect to are loose in the aluminum/die cast metal pump body and have fallen out. I want to replace the pump and I’m not sure which direction to go. I would really like to use 6AN hose from the pump to both carburetors. Pegasus Racing has the 6AN fittings for the carbs but the mechanical fuel pump doesn’t lend itself to AN fittings. Is there a mechanical pump available I can us 6AN fitting on or would I have to go to an electric pump? I understand the DCOEs only require about 2.5 pounds of fuel pressure so if I go electric I would probably have to put a regulator on the fuel line to be sure I  don’t go beyond the 2.5 pounds. Any advice will be appreciated.

[MV8]

AN is definitely overkill and you'd need to ensure the mech pump was compatible with alcohol / ethanol just in case.

 

I'd use an electric inline pump with pre-filter at the tank (I prefer carter) with metal lines (steel brake or nickel copper brake line coil with the ends slightly flared) and adel clamps with short sections of R9 efi hose and a standard filter at the carbs.

 

 

The carter P90091 (previously P60504) is ideal for a quiet, reliable, inline pump with pressure compatible with webers. I use this fuel pump for all carb applications.

 

Unfortunately, carter no longer lists actual specs on their pumps but here is the application list and you could always call Carter Tech Support: (888) 565-9632 for rated psi, gph. If memory serves, 2.5psi, 30gph. Plenty for carbs that have a bowl/accumulator to draw from with intermittent WOT versus fuel injectors which are more critical of gph when the regulator closes under WOT pressure drop in the fuel rail.

 

 Some of the more relevant applications for P90091/P60504:

 

1969-1971 Rover 3500S (In-Line); 1968-1973 Triumph GT6 (In-Line); 1971-1973 Triumph Stag (In-Line); 1968 Triumph TR250 (In-Line); 1960-1961 Triumph TR3A (In-Line); 1962 Triumph TR3B (In-Line); 1962-1964 Triumph TR4 (In-Line); 1965-1967 Triumph TR4A (In-Line); 1963-1980 Triumph Spitfire (In-Line); 1969-1976 Triumph TR6 (In-Line); 1975-1980 Triumph TR7 (In-Line); 1980 Triumph TR8 (In-Line); 1961-1974 Jaguar XKE (In-Line); 1973-1974 Jaguar XJ12 (In-Line); 1972-1978 Jaguar XJ6 (In-Line); 1965-1971 Porsche 911 (In-Line); 1965-1967 Porsche 912 (In-Line); 1970-1971 Porsche 914 (In-Line); 1971-1974 Opel 1900 (In-Line); 1973-1974 Opel Manta (In-Line); 1969-1973 Opel Opel (In-Line); 1968-1972 Opel Kadett (In-Line); 1968-1970 Opel Rallye (In-Line); 1977-1984 Renault LeCar (In-Line); 1972-1977 Renault R12 (In-Line); 1972-1976 Renault R15 (In-Line); 1974-1977 Renault R17 (In-Line); 1976 Renault R5 (In-Line); 1968-1971 Renault R10 (In-Line); 1969-1972 Renault R16 (In-Line); 1962-1968 Volvo 122 (In-Line); 1968-1971 Volvo 142 (In-Line); 1967-1971 Volvo 144 (In-Line); 1968-1971 Volvo 145 (In-Line); 1969-1971 Volvo 164 (In-Line); 1974-1978 Peugeot 504 (In-Line); 1981 Peugeot 604 (In-Line); 1966-1976 BMW 2002 (In-Line); 1966-1968 BMW 1600ti (In-Line); 1971 BMW 1802 (In-Line); 1971 BMW 2.8 Bavaria (In-Line);...

 

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/crt-p90091#overview

 

https://carterengineered.com/electric-fuel-pump-p90091

[IamScotticus]

Mechanical fuel pump from Pegasus.  these carbs REQUIRE under 4 PSI.  An electric pump can be used as a primer.  If you choose an electric pump as the only pump, use a regulator as well regardless of what the pump flow is rated at.

The mechanicals reliably feed ennough fuel at correct pressure at all engine speeds.

 

Everything shakes loose on 7s so leave plenty of hose slack.

 

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=31616

 

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=82

 

Edited October 31, 2023 by IamScotticus

[NSXguy]

Adding/reiterating what has already been mentioned...

 

Whatever setup you go with, always good to double check with a gauge that you are getting the required fuel pressure to the carbs. 

-you definitely don't need 6an lines (Ok for EFI, overkill for the carbs),  5/16 is what you want and most low pressure electric pumps come ready to accept that size line.

-My setup- run a short hose of 5/16 from the tank to pump (mount the pump as low as possible). mine is mounted in the rear on a custom cradle. then another short 5/16 hose to a 5/16 hard line running from the rear through the tunnel (supports/hangers needed) to the engine compartment and as close to the engine. Once there, short pieces of 5/16 connecting to the adjustable (1-4psi FPR), then fuel filter and then carbs. 

- **Double check your Fuel pressure. 

 

I'm using:

- Mr Gasket 42s fuel pump ( Previously had a Purolator 42s) - Many units to choose from. just make sure it is less than 4psi. I even like the unit MV8 posted. May try it out in the future. 

- Holley 12-804 adjustable FPR, again many in this style to choose from. 

- replaceable 5/16" inline napa filters 

 

[pethier]

15 hours ago, IamScotticus said:

Is a steering wheel diameter measured from the outer edge or the center of the rim?

It should be the outer edge, IMHO.  Dunno if there is a real standard.  The way I see it, what you want to know is where the wheel interacts with the driver.  The important metric laterally would be how far apart the driver's hands are.  This will be determined by the outside diameter of the wheel.

 

In the context of the concern of the author of this thread, the OD would be the logical consideration, as each inch of reduction in the OD would net a half-inch of thigh clearance.

 

I do recall that my Lotus 65 Europa fit me perfectly, but my daughter's then-boyfriend had the same thigh-clearance problem as the thread author.  That Europa came to me with a Grant GT wheel which was smaller and fatter than the stock wheel.  (A guy in Nottingham sold me a NOS original Lotus button that perfectly replaced the ugly Grant GT button in 20 seconds without tools. This gentleman had somehow acquired two boxes of these buttons, one box yellow and green, one box black and silver.)

 

 

[Wayne Stambaugh]

I have read that the gas tank in some Caterhams his the foam type baffle inside. I can take the 90 degree L off the filler neck and poke down inside with something to find out but before I do does anyone know about the tanks? Are some baffled with foam? If it is, at 37 years old it would have to be replaced. If anyone can educate me on this I would appreciate it very much.

[Wayne Stambaugh]

Today we removed the engine and transmission from the car in a single unit. No doubt, things are tight through this process but I’m sure it’s nothing compared to reinstalling the engine when it is ready. To anyone planning to do this be sure you can keep the engine level left to right and as they say, you need about 45 degrees from to back to get it out. again to say the least, it’s tight.

 

My helper today is an old friend I worked with for years. He is a motorcycle and sports car guy as well. He is from Treviso Italy and and almost speaks english now after being in the states almost 30 years. Seriously he does speak fairly good english now but you have to listen carefully. It’s nice to have friends like him that you can depend on. You can probably do this by youself but I sure wouldn’t recommend it.

[MV8]

You guys are having too much fun.

I doubt you have foam. Foam is an accessory for racing tanks but can cause more problems than it is worth, breaking down (from age or incompatibility with the fuel used) and clogging the fuel filter. I'd rather have slosh. I suggest removing the tank and fuel level sender to wash out the tank. Check that the float arm moves freely (not heavily rusted), the float still floats, and the resistance value changes smoothly and gradually with the arm position.