Does my 1700 Super Sprint really need an oil cooler?

[pethier]

My 1700 Super Sprint is used for autocross and pleasure drives.  Long trips to distant places is done in a trailer.

 

I don't drive it for long distances.  I don't race or do track days.

 

Is the MOCAL oil-cooler worth its mass in the front of the car?

 

I'm about to disconnect the oil cooler sandwich to change an oil-pump gasket, and it would be quite simple to take the whole thing out.

 

Is there is an extension of the threaded part that holds on the oil filter, or was that entire bit removed and replaced with a longer one when the oil cooler was installed?  I guess what I am asking here, is there anything I would have to buy to make the oil filter fit if the cooler sandwich was not there?

Edited August 3 by pethier

[MV8]

I'd remove the cooler. The adapter that holds a sandwich adapter on is usually just an extension on the original threads with a flange under the hex and a gasket that is a standard oil filter seal or an o ring. Remove the hex extension the filter screws on to and it should be back to original. You should see a little more oil pressure as well and sooner on startup.

[jbcollier]

It's not distance, it's load on the engine.  If you just putter about and usually get last place in autocrosses, sure, take it out.  If you drive at all hard, leave it in.

[pethier]

6 hours ago, jbcollier said:

It's not distance, it's load on the engine.  If you just putter about and usually get last place in autocrosses, sure, take it out.  If you drive at all hard, leave it in.

I drive it hard for 60 seconds at a time spread out over an autocross day.

 

I drive respectably on the road,

 

If it had a thermostatic bypass, I'd be more-inclined to leave it in.

[MV8]

Using traditional oil (not synthetic), if the normal oil pressure falls off within 3000 miles, consider an oil cooler or switch to synthetic. You can always add a temporary oil temp gauge under the dash if curious. It should be hotter than coolant but not so hot as to break down. A sandwich cooler that plumbs into the heater circuit fittings is a good compromise that does not need a  thermostat, minimal pressure drop, and is very compact/clean. There are sandwich adapters that can be used to add the oil temp fitting so no mods.

[EdWills]

Hi Pethier.

 

I wondered about this same question, and I found some good responses on the Caterham and Lotus Seven Club forum (U.K.). Some prefer the cooler to be behind the water radiator, some say it's o.k. in front, others that you do not really require one as modern oils have much better quality and ability to withstand heat more than those available some years ago. Great advice again from MV8 above..  Peter Wallage in his Kent Crossflow book, as well as Tony Weale in his Lotus Seven book (why hasn't it been reprinted?) mention that an oil cooler is only really worthwhile for racing.  It appears that if you do race your car, the engine fan - whether electric or attached to the water pump - could reasonably be removed from the car, and placed back later for road use.  If you check some of the cars that are offered/were offered for sale on Simple Sevens, as well as some of the Sevens offered for sale on-line, some of them have no cooler in front, and may have the electric fan and brackets completely removed - presumably to be used only as full-on race cars.  Iamscotticus noted that the Mocal (U.K.) catalogue writer advised that the oil cooler is best situated almost immediately in front of the water rad. to avoid air turbulence.  On my original (now long gone!) Series 3 chassis, Lotus fitted a couple of small angle brackets on the front lower frame tube and installed a Mocal 7 row oil cooler. Lotus adapted the oil pump filter holder by machining it shorter, and placing an oil cooler take-off between the pump and the cut down filter holder.  I am the 3rd owner, so do not know if the original owner intended to race the car, or actually raced it (in Saskatchewan).  The second owner (Edmonton) did race and slalom the car, so probably made good use of the cooler.  Just a note: the wet oil sump on my car was never baffled or modified to prevent oil surge.  Years ago, the 'Accusump' was suggested as a preventative measure to help avoid bearing damage without going to dry sump when racing or for fast road work, and Mocal still sells this item (maybe Dave Bean also?). Best. Will F

[IamScotticus]

Is there a dry sump here?

I've read quite a bit on oil coolers and dry sump for the Kent engine 7s and came to the conclusion that a dry sump is more beneficial than an oil cooler.  For one, a dry sump (should) provide a better aerated supply of oil and somewhat cooled from the cycle.   The standard Kent oil pump is the Bain of the system and over-driven. Eliminating two sources of frothed up oil gives the oil you need, not cooler oil.

Also, I have head from several who,  in their particular type of usage,  that they couldn't warm up with a cooler.

I would say of using a oil cooler,  don't go too large.  Four row or the water jacket type.  

Edited August 5 by IamScotticus

[pethier]

3 hours ago, IamScotticus said:

Is there a dry sump here?

 

My previous 1979 Caterham 1600 crossflow had a dry-sump and no oil cooler.  My present 1700 Super Sprint has no dry-sump.

 

 

[EdWills]

A dry sump set-up is quite expensive - naturally requiring a correctly shaped sump with the necessary fittings, then the tank which has to fit in the engine bay of a Seven, all the fittings and plumbing whether BSP, AN or perhaps metric?  The pump - 5 port  seems to be the recommended option - is not cheap. If fitting an oil cooler, a thermostat is highly recommended to allow the oil to get up to temperature, but then prevent it from becoming too cooled, and then perhaps a remote oil filter adapter (I forgot to add that this was installed by Lotus on my original car).  An extra fine mesh in-line filter is also highly recommended to prevent damage to the expensive oil pump. In the 1960/early 1970s flyers originally distributed by Lotus, a dry sump system was an extra 30 U.K. Pounds for a Seven. I haven't tallied the cost in today's money, but if you check the Burton Performance site for prices, I'm guessing that it's going to be an eye opener.  Dave Bean developed a very clever device to allow oil pick-up in the Ford wet sump using a swinging arm type of pick-up.  Dave came up with a couple of cleverly designed gadgets suitable for a Seven to save going on a more expensive route. An added benefit of a dry sump on a Seven is a bit more ground clearance, and no oil starvation to the bearings when hard cornering.  WF

[7Westfield]

4 port pump won't fit a 7.  Engine mount interferes with filter

 

starting from scratch, best budget at least $2500 if going with new parts

 

I only did mine because I had all the bits laying around, and still spent a bunch on hose and fittings

[EdWills]

Caterham through Arch, produced a special engine bracket that curved around the pump, and looked like half a pretzel.  It is really heavy gauge tubing in order to take the weight of the engine due to the sharp curve.  I have one, and I'm hoping that I don't have to use it.  I didn't check the total cost of a dry sump system, but I figure 7Westfield is right on the money. W.

Edited August 5 by EdWills

[pethier]

2 hours ago, EdWills said:

A dry sump set-up is quite expensive - naturally requiring a correctly shaped sump with the necessary fittings, then the tank which has to fit in the engine bay of a Seven,

As I recall, the passenger footwell in my 1979 Caterham 1600 was shortened to make room for the oil tank.  Fortunately, these cars are long on passenger legroom and I never heard any complaints.

 

[EdWills]

Hi.  I purchased a used dry sump oil tank from BAT in the U.S. a few years ago.  It was from a Crossle Formula Ford, is tall enough and rectangular in shape, and looks like the type that Lotus used in their sports racing cars. Last I heard Crossle was still manufacturing cars in Northern Ireland (Belfast area), and may have spare tanks for sale.  All the fittings are BSP, and the tank will mount nicely in front of the passenger firewall ally sheet with the Crossle brackets and mounting rubbers.  W.

[pethier]

If I do anything, it will probably be Accusump.

[IamScotticus]

13 hours ago, EdWills said:

Dave Bean developed a very clever device to allow oil pick-up in the Ford wet sump using a swinging arm type of pick-up.

The "Swinger"?

I've been looking for one.

[inchoate]

I would suggest doing a lot of research before going down the dry sump path.  I spent a lot of money before I figured out that there was no way to fit the oil tank in my car without moving major stuff around. YMMV and dry sumps are super cool but I've come to the conclusion that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. 

 

I replaced the Caterham oil cooler that was on my car with a similarly sized Setrab setup.  Everything dropped in with no issues.  I'm now using the Setrab thermostatically controlled oil cooler sandwich plate, so if the oil gets hot enough it goes through the cooler.  Seems like a good solution to me and no problems yet.

[pethier]

If I were to use the car the way I have used sports cars (pleasure driving on the road and USA-style autocrosses) AND also do long-session big-track days, I would certainly want to go with a thermostatic oil-cooler system. 

 

Since I won't be doing long-session big-track days, I have decided that the oil cooler is not worth its weight in the front of the car.  I have it boxed up and on the shelf.

 

I had originally thought I could get the oil-cooler sandwich-plate to come out the top without taking the hoses off of it.  It would not make the corners around the steering column.  Since the plate was already loose, it was not practical to break the hose connections at the plate.  I solved this by removing the hoses at the cooler end. With all the oil drained from the cooler and hoses, I re-attached the cooler to its mounts so I could get enough torque on the hose connections to disconnect the hoses at that end.  Threaded each hose back through the bottom of the car and the plate came easily out the bottom.

Edited August 6 by pethier
The RHD steering column was the hangup.

[7Westfield]

On 8/5/2024 at 10:51 PM, pethier said:

If I do anything, it will probably be Accusump.

Let me know if you do...I have a like new one quart unit with mount clamps and filter block that I no longer need

[pethier]

2 hours ago, 7Westfield said:

Let me know if you do...I have a like new one quart unit with mount clamps and filter block that I no longer need

PM sent

[David Hansen]

Not trying to hijack the thread here but this seems the most appropriate place to pose this question.

 

My new to me Westy has a shortened oil pan because the PO hit something.  It is about even with the bottom of the bell housing and with a tall filter I am about 3.25 quarts of oil.  

 

Given I am using good synthetic oil and just really street driving for the remainder of this summer I am sure I will be just fine as I will keep an eye on the temps.

 

I live in Portland and Ivey Engines are local to me and I know they make some huge oil pan but that might not be the best for a car that is not a 100% full time race car.

 

I can solve the capacity issue by adding a big oil cooler and pick up a quart or so with the lines or I could try and find some other modified sump that has a bit more capacity.

 

I don't think I am ready to go all dry sump yet as I am just getting into the car but as a longer term concern I wonder what the current wisdom is here?