Cologne V6 - keep or swap

[rdav]

Hello all,

 

I picked up this 1990 Westfield SE yesterday and have been dying to get it running. It has 2 2.6L Cologne engines, one installed and another on an engine stand. Both need a good bit of cleaning and likely a top end rebuild as they have been sitting for a number of years without valve covers on. 

 

My main issue I am seeing is that these 2.6L engines were not put in much at all and don't seem to have a good aftermarket support. I'm pretty sure its paired to a ford type 9 5 speed as reverse is on the left, however I am not familiar with these and haven't checked any casting numbers/letters to make sure. 

 

This leads to recommendations on what drivetrain I should put in this guy. My buddy has a liter bike powered locost and that thing is pretty sick however performing this swap would cost a bit and definitely make this a winter project. I could alternately get a 2.8L or 2.9L cologne from a ranger/mustang/capri and have some aftermarket support but thats really my only option with aftermarket considering the bell housing pattern of the cologne V6. I am also considering a Miata drivetrain swap as that has loads of aftermarket parts that are readily available about anywhere. 

 

Just starting off so I've got a world full of possibilities and no/minimal lotus 7 experience to base any decisions off of so any and all advice is appreciated!

 

[MV8]

Only if the 2.6 needs rare parts, I'd look for the ranger 83-84 2.8l and 2 barrel or aftermarket intake or a 90-95 4.0l ohv with a diy slide throttle in place of the upper intake (to get the height down) and use megasquirt. An SOHC probably would not fit under the bonnet. Plan on oil pan/windage/accumulator mods to cope with oil supply when hard cornering.

 

[44 AND COUNTING]

CAUTION: ONLY PARTIAL 7 CONTENT!

 

Twenty-five years ago I built a 2.6 for my Sunbeam Alpine. The only aftermarket parts available back then were cams and pistons. I had the block bored out to 3.0 or thereabouts. My shop was across the parking lot from Ed Isky's son's custom cam shop, so I gave him a core and he ground a custom cam for me.
 

I had another friend who was an engineer who worked in development for Shelby, and he scored me a prototype shorty K&N  blower. I machined a 19mm T6 plate to adapt it to a hogged-out stock intake manifold. This was topped with a rejetted 650 Holley. The blower ran at 2X crank speed. A local shop welded up a set of custom headers.

 

Finishing touch was a scratchbuiilt nitrous setup that ran into the intake

ports. First time I hit the button it made an unearthly roar and dumped coolant all over the road! Taught me the necessity of copper head gaskets...which I had to scratchbuild, too. Then it was crazy fast for a V6, though I never dynoed it.

 

I wish I had this setup in my Westfield!

 

Next chapter--photos of the faux V12 DOHC cylinder heads and distributor casing that I made with 6 actual and 6 dummy spark plug leads. Everything visible was finished in black wrinkle...

 

The Cologne V6 had to have been one of the UGLIEST motors ever made, hence the cosmetic mods.

 

When I took it to its first outdoor show, the "experts" were crawling all over and under it, scratching their heads. Maybe this was because of the raised aluminum "Isotta Fraschini" script that I inlaid into the cam covers...

 

Stay tuned for more non-7 posts on this topic. I promise no more after this... 

 

Pre-digital photo. Sorry for bad quality.

Edited September 27 by 44 AND COUNTING
Misspellings

[rdav]

2 hours ago, 44 AND COUNTING said:

CAUTION: ONLY PARTIAL 7 CONTENT!

 

Twenty-five years ago I built a 2.6 for my Sunbeam Alpine. The only aftermarket parts available back then were cams and pistons. I had the block bored out to 3.0 or thereabouts. My shop was across the parking lot from Ed Isky's son's custom cam shop, so I gave him a core and he ground a custom cam for me.
 

I had another friend who was an engineer who worked in development for Shelby, and he scored me a prototype shorty K&N  blower. I machined a 19mm T6 plate to adapt it to a hogged-out stock intake manifold. This was topped with a rejetted 650 Holley. The blower ran at 2X crank speed. A local shop welded up a set of custom headers.

 

Finishing touch was a scratchbuiilt nitrous setup that ran into the intake

ports. First time I hit the button it made an unearthly roar and dumped coolant all over the road! Taught me the necessity of copper head gaskets...which I had to scratchbuild, too. Then it was crazy fast for a V6, though I never dynoed it.

 

I wish I had this setup in my Westfield!

 

Next chapter--photos of the faux V12 DOHC cylinder heads and distributor casing that I made with 6 actual and 6 dummy spark plug leads. Everything visible was finished in black wrinkle...

 

The Cologne V6 had to have been one of the UGLIEST motors ever made, hence the cosmetic mods.

 

When I took it to its first outdoor show, the "experts" were crawling all over and under it, scratching their heads. Maybe this was because of the raised aluminum "Isotta Fraschini" script that I inlaid into the cam covers...

 

Stay tuned for more non-7 posts on this topic. I promise no more after this... 

 

Pre-digital photo. Sorry for bad quality.

That is absolutely sick! Here in the US we only got the 2.6 in the top trim capris from 1972-1973 so to say its rare here is an understatement! Makes parts for my 1960 rambler wagon look readily available by comparison. I fear that I don't have the connections nor the money to get the 2.6 running reliably unfortunately. The 2.8 is still "rare" in comparison to most ford engine options however it is years better than the 2.6 in terms of parts and its the only other engine that'll bolt up to the type 9 5 speed. (Plus it'll line up with the already cut circle in the hood for the 2 barrel carb air cleaner) I might grab a 2.8 to get it running for now while I weigh my options for a good permeant solution.

 

I like the idea of a V6 as loathe the noise the comes from most 4 pot inline engines. If only someone made a small displacement all aluminum V8 that was popular and very lightweight.  I'll likely go the path of aftermarket support and end up with a Miata drivetrain, although time will tell. Being able to get parts from the store in a pinch is super nice. A Duratec V6 is sounding like a decent option as I've seen some threads in Miata forums documenting this process. I'm also going to look into grabbing an older SN95 v6 5 speed mustang as a donor but I haven't seen this as a popular option. Any idea why? Parts are cheap and common as dirt and they are reliable engines They just don't make a lot of power, but that's not really needed in this car. 

 

Thanks again!

 

[44 AND COUNTING]

1 hour ago, MV8 said:

rdav, create a separate topic for your car and/or power train options.

 

2 hours ago, rdav said:

That is absolutely sick! Here in the US we only got the 2.6 in the top trim capris from 1972-1973 so to say its rare here is an understatement! Makes parts for my 1960 rambler wagon look readily available by comparison. I fear that I don't have the connections nor the money to get the 2.6 running reliably unfortunately. The 2.8 is still "rare" in comparison to most ford engine options however it is years better than the 2.6 in terms of parts and its the only other engine that'll bolt up to the type 9 5 speed. (Plus it'll line up with the already cut circle in the hood for the 2 barrel carb air cleaner) I might grab a 2.8 to get it running for now while I weigh my options for a good permeant solution.

 

I like the idea of a V6 as loathe the noise the comes from most 4 pot inline engines. If only someone made a small displacement all aluminum V8 that was popular and very lightweight.  I'll likely go the path of aftermarket support and end up with a Miata drivetrain, although time will tell. Being able to get parts from the store in a pinch is super nice. A Duratec V6 is sounding like a decent option as I've seen some threads in Miata forums documenting this process. I'm also going to look into grabbing an older SN95 v6 5 speed mustang as a donor but I haven't seen this as a popular option. Any idea why? Parts are cheap and common as dirt and they are reliable engines They just don't make a lot of power, but that's not really needed in this car. 

 

Thanks again!

 

Sorry, guys, for going off topic; didn't realise the etiquette here.

 

Anyway, I said "K&N when I meant "B&M"...

[slowdude]

18 hours ago, rdav said:

Hello all,

 

I picked up this 1990 Westfield SE yesterday and have been dying to get it running. It has 2 2.6L Cologne engines, one installed and another on an engine stand. Both need a good bit of cleaning and likely a top end rebuild as they have been sitting for a number of years without valve covers on. 

 

My main issue I am seeing is that these 2.6L engines were not put in much at all and don't seem to have a good aftermarket support. I'm pretty sure its paired to a ford type 9 5 speed as reverse is on the left, however I am not familiar with these and haven't checked any casting numbers/letters to make sure. 

 

This leads to recommendations on what drivetrain I should put in this guy. My buddy has a liter bike powered locost and that thing is pretty sick however performing this swap would cost a bit and definitely make this a winter project. I could alternately get a 2.8L or 2.9L cologne from a ranger/mustang/capri and have some aftermarket support but thats really my only option with aftermarket considering the bell housing pattern of the cologne V6. I am also considering a Miata drivetrain swap as that has loads of aftermarket parts that are readily available about anywhere. 

 

Just starting off so I've got a world full of possibilities and no/minimal lotus 7 experience to base any decisions off of so any and all advice is appreciated!

 

Since you have a separate block, why not just build the engine?

 

Part of the 7 world is craftiness with sourcing. I am constantly buying stuff overseas and having it shipped over. 

 

You should try to think past the "I'll swing down to the O reillys" mentality. You can't equate this car to driving a modern vehicle. It isn't the same. It's like owning a classic. 

 

Any of those mods (miata, bike engine) will require adjustments to your harness, cooling, transmission etc. This will take you further away from your goal of getting it running.

 

Trans is most likely a T9 ford if 5 speed. 

[7Westfield]

Several people around here have used a V6 from a Camaro, something like 3.1 or 3.4L IIRC  in MGB's

might be too tall for a 7, but worth putting a ruler on one--also check trans width

[MV8]

rdav, the 2.8 is not the only engine that will bolt up to the bellhousing you have for the 2.6. The mustang engine is a 90 degree v6 "essex" not a 60 degree v6 "cologne". The 2.8 will have a bolt-on adapter that converts the intake from a weber 2 barrel to a holley/motorcraft 2 barrel. Removing that to fit the weber will lower the height to that of the 2.6l. The intakes are not interchangeable between 2.6 and 2.8. These engines have solid lifters that require periodic adjustment. The 2.9 and 4.0 are hydraulic self-adjusting.

 

Echoing slowdude, converting will require significant engineering work and knowledge to be successful; aftermarket support or not.

[Marek]

These guys will sell you a bellhousing allowing you to K-Swap and use your existing Ford Type 9.

 

https://www.rwdmotorsport.com/product/honda-k20-k24-to-ford-type-9-bellhousing/

 

At that point, you have access to the entire Honda K-series world...

[MV8]

That could work starting with the right length input shaft to shorten. There are at least five different length input shafts for the T9 and four are longer than 171mm with the clutch hub spline at different positions from the end.

 

The most cost effective, straight forward, and quickest method would be to have someone clean, assemble, and put the 2.6 back in. Don't know what trans is in it yet. Maybe a 4 spd or the one that looks like a T5.

Edited September 27 by MV8

[slowdude]

21 hours ago, MV8 said:

That could work starting with the right length input shaft to shorten. There are at least five different length input shafts for the T9 and four are longer than 171mm with the clutch hub spline at different positions from the end.

 

The most cost effective, straight forward, and quickest method would be to have someone clean, assemble, and put the 2.6 back in. Don't know what trans is in it yet. Maybe a 4 spd or the one that looks like a T5.

This. Spend the 3k to get the motor built right and enjoy. While they're building the engine, go through brakes, bearings and bushings.

[rdav]

Thank you all for the awesome feedback. Glad to see this forum isn't dead like some others I've been to. 

On 9/27/2024 at 9:42 AM, slowdude said:

Since you have a separate block, why not just build the engine?

 

Part of the 7 world is craftiness with sourcing. I am constantly buying stuff overseas and having it shipped over. 

 

You should try to think past the "I'll swing down to the O reillys" mentality. You can't equate this car to driving a modern vehicle. It isn't the same. It's like owning a classic. 

 

Any of those mods (miata, bike engine) will require adjustments to your harness, cooling, transmission etc. This will take you further away from your goal of getting it running.

 

Trans is most likely a T9 ford if 5 speed. 

I'm used to being crafty with sourcing items, the only way I can get good parts for my 1960 Rambler Cross country is to fill out a paper form with stock numbers, my credit card info, and fax it to the guy with the parts in AZ lol. I just am not too fond of it as I am the type who likes to cross shop for bargains when shopping rather than buying something because its the only correct part I can get. If I break down at an autocross/track day I'd like to be able to run to the nearest autoparts store to get replacement parts instead of waiting a few weeks to get something in the mail after paying way too much for parts because they are rare. 

 

With that being said I do plan to rebuild the current 2.6 as that's the easiest and cheapest option to get it running again. I found a gasket kit for the 2.6 off of ebay and a rebuild kit for the Weber DGAS 2 barrel that should be in from across the pond in a few weeks. Right now its a matter of reconditioning what parts I can and figuring out what is cross compatible with the 2.8L Colognes so I can minimize the expensive and slow across the pond shipping options. 

 

On 9/27/2024 at 2:43 PM, Marek said:

These guys will sell you a bellhousing allowing you to K-Swap and use your existing Ford Type 9.

 

https://www.rwdmotorsport.com/product/honda-k20-k24-to-ford-type-9-bellhousing/

 

At that point, you have access to the entire Honda K-series world...

That is very temping especially considering the price. I'll add that to the more likely of swaps as I do have a T9. 

[slowdude]

5 minutes ago, rdav said:

Thank you all for the awesome feedback. Glad to see this forum isn't dead like some others I've been to. 

I'm used to being crafty with sourcing items, the only way I can get good parts for my 1960 Rambler Cross country is to fill out a paper form with stock numbers, my credit card info, and fax it to the guy with the parts in AZ lol. I just am not too fond of it as I am the type who likes to cross shop for bargains when shopping rather than buying something because its the only correct part I can get. If I break down at an autocross/track day I'd like to be able to run to the nearest autoparts store to get replacement parts instead of waiting a few weeks to get something in the mail after paying way too much for parts because they are rare. 

 

With that being said I do plan to rebuild the current 2.6 as that's the easiest and cheapest option to get it running again. I found a gasket kit for the 2.6 off of ebay and a rebuild kit for the Weber DGAS 2 barrel that should be in from across the pond in a few weeks. Right now its a matter of reconditioning what parts I can and figuring out what is cross compatible with the 2.8L Colognes so I can minimize the expensive and slow across the pond shipping options. 

 

That is very temping especially considering the price. I'll add that to the more likely of swaps as I do have a T9. 

I hear you, I had the same when I was racing more frequently. A ford duratec/mazda MZR may be the way to go then.

 

If that's the case, you're better off selling and finding a car with that engine.

 

I have a fairly stupid rover engine. When it works it's fantastic, but it's definitely got some character. You slowly just accumulate spares to take to the track. Thankfully these cars are very simple to work on.

[rdav]

I recently discovered why the one engine was pulled last night. I plan to pull the other engine that is in the car currently to try and get it unseized tonight. The top end of the first engine was "good" and intact, it was definitely dry and in need of cleaning. Lifters and cam seem good as I don't know if I can say the same for the other engine right now. 

 

Once I can hopefully confirm that rusty lifters are what is stopping the second engine from turning over, I can likely piece together a good engine with all the parts I have right now without having to find a good machine shop around me. 

 

If I do decide to stay with this platform though I do have a nice block that's ready to be built and a crank that is ready/needs to be ground down to allow more generous oil clearances. I need to grab my micrometer to see if it is salvageable though.

 

 

Nice view of where one of the rod bearings from lucky rod #6 ended up. 

 

 

 

You can even see the height of the groves left by the mains on this journal, not good! 

Edited October 2 by rdav

[rdav]

I also have a very bad idea for a swap option...or maybe a great one

 

https://www.copart.com/lot/69752404/salvage-2022-aprilia-rsv4-1100-oh-cleveland-west

https://www.copart.com/lot/57109312/2022-ducati-panigale-v4s-oh-cleveland-west?_gl=1*annor9*_up*MQ..&gclid=Cj0KCQjw3vO3BhCqARIsAEWblcAfFVlU23NGn2UiH_1AoYspr3Vjhtz9V7C2_mdJA5_WUY1_r1xErtwaAgBGEALw_wcB

 

Both of these are down the street from me and would be awesome to have in this little westfield. Won't be an easy or cheap swap but definitely possible as a winter project. I don't think anyone has swapped one of these before.  

[panamericano]

If you're close to a copart, I have another idea.  Watch for a recent Polaris Slingshot (not the earlier GM engine).  The Polaris should be light, the ECM and harness, etc. and Miata transmission in one shot.  210 horses with factory reliability.  The people that buy them crash with incredible frequency, so copart has a bunch.  Alas, it may take a while to find a stick shift as most riders choose automatic.