Curious Oil Gauge Reading & Valve Stem Oil seal question

[Tony]

I've noticed that when I start the engine, the oil pressure guage reading jumps up to around 4, but does not come down as it usually does.

Usually, previously, upon startup, the oil pressure jumps up, but once warm, drops down to the 2-3 level.

Now, it just stays up for a long time, dropping down at low rpm only after a period of time.

It does not appear to be temperature related because this happens even when the engine is very hot.

Sound like the oil pressure sending guage?

Appreciate your thoughts.

 

My Kent, '93 super sprint engine is now smoking, A LOT upon start up and when I tap the gas pedal.

Cloud of blue on startup, large puffs when tapping the gas.

I've been using a variety of "stop smoke" products but to no avail.

I see no valve stem oil seals which are shown in Tony Weales diagram of the Kent Ford engine.

I've been told both that those engines DO NOT use the valve stem oil seals and that they do.

Looking for a way to reduce the smoking, perhaps installing such seals would be a relatively easy way to correct the problem.

Engine has only 21,000 miles.

 

General thoughts?

 

I am not interested in overhauling the engine or remove the head for a  valve job.........

 

Thanks much,

 

Tony

 

 

[7Westfield]

Yes, they run stem seals   Sounds to me like you have worn intake guides, so a set of seals may slow down the smoke, but only a valve job is a sure cure.

At least seals are a fairly easy job

 

When you do go for a valve job, send it to someone who knows this engine--your local machine shop is likely to muck it up

 

Sender for oil gauge is my first suspect on that issue

Edited October 9 by 7Westfield

[EdWills]

Not sure if this applies in your case, but Burton Performance in the U.K. advised me that if bronze valve guides are installed, oil seals should not be fitted to the valves.   When the guides are part of the original head i.e. same cast iron material drilled for clearance in the Ford factory, the seals should be fitted. The original Ford seals are not a clip fit on to the top of the guide and so move up and down with the valve allowing sufficient oil in to the guide to provide lubrication.  The Ford seals that I have from my original engine have a very small semicircle missing at the bottom of the seal to presumably allow just a small amount of oil in to the guide.  You can get seals that have small springs around their bases and these clip on to guides with a groove in them, but the springs have been known to break and end up inside the engine.  This type is not supposed to be used with bronze guides as none or little oil will pass through them.  EW

[MV8]

Sounds like stuck rings to me. A few hot, high load/full throttle pulls through the rev range may help, along with flushing and a fresh oil change if it has been a few years.

If only the stem seals were missing but otherwise in good condition, I would expect a little smoke on cold start up that is too little to be seen/minimal once warm.

[Tony]

Thank you for your input.

 

As to the bronze valve guides, is there reference info on which heads have them?

Would there be a serial number on the head that might shed light?

I'd be willing to have the seals installed if I can narrow down the correct ones.

Found Fiesta 6166553, Kent V57 and Burton FP704A//FP705A.  Any ring a bell?

Just want to be sure I get the correct, recommended seals.

 

On the oil pressure sensor, is there a particular part number that comes to mind?

Know the engine is the Kent Ford 2265, 1600GT, but a google search turned up a bunch of options....

 

In the event I  have the head reconditioned, any suggestions on shops that are familiar with the SuperSprint Engine?

 

Again, thanks.  Really appreciate such detail!

 

Tony

 

 

 

[7Westfield]

pressure sender needs to match the gauge

doesn't care what engine

 

I'm going to be talking to a FF engine builder this weekend, I'll ask him if he's interested

[toldfield]

https://iveyengines.com

 

They have been very good for me.  

[EdWills]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

Thank you for your input.

 

As to the bronze valve guides, is there reference info on which heads have them?

Would there be a serial number on the head that might shed light?

I'd be willing to have the seals installed if I can narrow down the correct ones.

Found Fiesta 6166553, Kent V57 and Burton FP704A//FP705A.  Any ring a bell?

Just want to be sure I get the correct, recommended seals.

 

On the oil pressure sensor, is there a particular part number that comes to mind?

Know the engine is the Kent Ford 2265, 1600GT, but a google search turned up a bunch of options....

 

In the event I  have the head reconditioned, any suggestions on shops that are familiar with the SuperSprint Engine?

 

Again, thanks.  Really appreciate such detail!

 

Tony

 

 

 

Hi Tony.  The head would probably only have bronze guides if Caterham or the previous owner had them installed perhaps along with unleaded (hardened) exhaust valve seats.  Also, some tuners do not use valve seals when they install double valve springs as there is no room for the original Ford produced 'umbrella' type inside the smaller inner spring.  They sometimes use the very slim type with the retaining spring on the cast-in guides, but if there is no groove allowed for them in the top of the guide, these can come loose and will move up and down with the valve.  The Kent VS7 is a double spring assembly for road/rally use recommended by Kent with the 224, 234, 244 or A3 camshaft , and is considered extra strong as compared to the original single Ford valve spring. A check on the Kent Cams site will show the poundage as 53 Newton/millimetres or 302.5 pounds/inch pressure when fully compressed by the cam lift. It has a 34 mm installed height (1-5/16 inches approximately.) Note: V57 ( Vee fifty-seven) does not show on the site.  Burton FP704A is not shown on their site when I just checked, but FP705A (rubber seal) is suitable for duplex valve springs and has the spring around the top to fit a groove in the top of the pressed-in guide.  705A is for guides FP380 (cast iron guides that require machining of the head to fit) or FP381 (Bronze guides same requirements as FP380).  Both guides show the machined groove in the top to allow the use of seals with the spring around the neck. Another valve stem seal is shown as FP720, a race valve stem oil seal and is described as 'metal cased'.  

 

A very good explanation of valve stem seals can be found at: http://www.felpro.com/technical/tecblogs/valve-stem-seals.html.

 

Hope this helps.  EW

Edited October 10 by EdWills

[EdWills]

Just a P.S.  You may not have to remove the head to install seals if you have access to a compressor and an adapter to fit the spark plug hole.  Using air pressure to hold the valves in place in each cylinder, after removing the valve cover and unbolting the rocker arm assembly, a special valve compressor tool can be used to remove the collets, remove the springs and cap, and install stem seals of whichever type you choose.  Then reverse the procedure.  Some tuning shops will have the necessary equipment to do this, and it does save the time and energy (and maybe cost?) required to remove the cylinder head from the engine. Note: Mark the spark plug wires so that they go back in the correct order (if not already identified). EW

[Tony]

Thanks Ed!  I will likely take it to a local shop to have the seals done.  Looks like I won't know which to order until they pull off the valve cover.  I know that SuperSprint engine had a mild cam, larger valves and I think stronger springs, but as to what they did on their heads, otherwise, I can't say. 

I'll copy all of the above to share with them and continue to dig for specifics about my engine.

 

Tony

[EdWills]

22 hours ago, EdWills said:

.  This type is not supposed to be used with bronze guides as none or little oil will pass through them.  EW

Should read: This type may not provide a sufficient amount of oil for bronze valve guides. EW

[IamScotticus]

My best book on building and tuning Kent Formula Ford race engines, by Jake Lamont, has this to say about the preparation of the head:

Send it off to a specialist. 

Yep.   So much has to he done right,  the details would probably be beyond the scope of the home builder and double the size of his book.

You are fortunate,  removal is simple.  Just remember to loosen the head bolts correctly so the surface isn't warped.

When you get it back, scrape & clean the  deck, new haed gasket, install properly, adjust valve lash. Re-fill the coolant and oil. Readjust valve lash hot.

After all that, if you still smoke, then MV8 was right, again 🤭

Call Ken at Dave Bean and ask if there are any Kent builders in you area.

(209) 754-5802

If there are, they are buying parts from him.

Edited October 11 by IamScotticus

[Tony]

Pulled the valve cover and found what EdWills mentioned, "The Kent VS7 is a double spring assembly for road/rally use recommended by Kent with the 224, 234, 244 or A3 camshaft , and is considered extra strong as compared to the original single Ford valve spring."

Definitely dual spring, but could not see any other details without removing one of the sets of valve springs.......

So, looks like I won't know until the shop opens it up.

Would imagine these seals are fairly easy to come by, once we know what type of guides are there.

Appreciate the input everyone!