Fuel pump, relay, and fuel filter location question

[mrmustang]

Disclaimer: sorry if I ramble, it's been a long day and I'm winding down for the evening.

Now let's start at the beginning.

Car is a 2003 SV, originally built for the overseas market with a 1.8L Rover engine

in 2004 the owner, after a lengthy honeymoon in Australia, was offered a job in the US, and promptly pulled the Rover engine and shipped the car over as a roller.

2004 ZX3 headed engine with stage 1 cam and aluminum flywheel sourced by Caterham USA (Denver ?) rated per them at 202hp with 4 roller barrel and Percel ECU. Owner then self installed.

2016 car is sold to 2nd owner

Last month sold to me and shipped to my home last Saturday, parked in front yard, and not touched till yesterday when the new driveway was cured enough to allow the car to be placed in a garage.

Took me almost 15 minutes to get the car started and running well enough to warm it up, as it was outside, and slightly windy, I was not concerned that I did not hear the fuel pump kick in when I turned the ignition on.

Now that it's in the garage, I'm starting to make my list of items to address,thankfully, per the seller, the oil/air filter, plugs and wires have already been done, which leaves me with fuel filter, and what I thought was a bad coil pack due to the rough running and slight hesitation/backfire, since it was sufficiently warmed up, and only driven 250-300 feet, I thought nothing of it.

Was in the garage (30 degrees) for a few minutes and running things through my head, turn the key, and did not hear the relay click, nor the fuel pump cycle. Now I'm wondering if either or both are bad, and exactly what I have on my hands.

Is it possible to start the car with just suction on a fuel injected engine, I'm thinking not, but every other Caterham or Birkin I have owned, I've always been able to hear the fuel pump when I turn the key and power up the circuits.

 

So, now we are at the point where I really need assistance

Fuel filter location?

Fuel relay location?

Electric fuel pump location (in tank perhaps)?

 

Car was built by the assembly manual for the Rover engine, then the new Zetec engine I'm hoping was also installed per the additional Zetec assembly manual I have in the 8" thick file.

 

Can anyone guide me as to where to start? Where to look?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Bill

[MV8]

Pics, an '03 owners manual, assembly manual, and the model of pectel would help.

 

I expect the fuel pump relay to be in a bank behind the dash panel that also contains a row of fuses that include the fuel pump fuse.

 

I expect the fuel pump to be either in tank or within a foot of the tank and the filter near the pump.

 

I expect an oil pressure switch (typically three terminals) is being used to keep the fuel pump on when the engine is running. This alone would result in a longer than typical crank period before the engine will start.

 

An older oem ecu typically runs the fuel pump for a few seconds when the key is turned to run/start to prime for cranking to supplement oil pressure. This could also be done with a momentary "Prime" button where the relay switches the pump on when pressed and does not need to go through the key switch. Another, more complicated way is to power the relay through an isolated contact (to prevent back feeding) when the key is in the "start" position. There are many ways to do this.

Edited January 11 by MV8

[mrmustang]

3 hours ago, MV8 said:

Pics, an '03 owners manual, assembly manual, and the model of pectel would help.

 

 

Uncertain of the model of Pectel right now, as I have not delved in to the files to review everything.

Apparently, with motivation from your post above, it did get me off my behind and out to the cold garage this AM where I stuck a camera under the dash and took some raw shots. The two from the drivers (RH) side answered some of my questions as to fuse/relay location. Now I just need a day of 50 degree temps and I'll be able to further motivate myself into getting the car up on stands so I can get underneath to review everything else.

 

Appreciate the assistance

 

Bill

Edited January 11 by mrmustang

[NSXguy]

22 minutes ago, mrmustang said:

Uncertain of the model of Pectel right now, as I have not delved in to the files to review everything.

Apparently, with motivation from your post above, it did get me off my behind and out to the cold garage this AM where I stuck a camera under the dash and took some raw shots. The two from the drivers (RH) side answered some of my questions as to fuse/relay location. Now I just need a day of 50 degree temps and I'll be able to further motivate myself into getting the car up on stands so I can get underneath to review everything else.

 

Appreciate the assistance

 

Bill

 

if you got the car to run, albeit rough, I would suspect the pump is OK. Whenever I pick up a car like this(classic or used); no matter what the previous owner states(especially if not verifiably documented) I would replace all consumables/wear- plugs, filters, cap/rotor if equipped, tstat, water pump if car has been sitting long.

They’re cheap and It’s critical for me to baseline a car so I can maintain going forward; it’s been my experience personally and helping others that the one or two things you don’t replace are the very ones that will leave you stranded on your “new” car when you least expect. 

 

Relay/Fuses- can locate relay even without diagram- there will likely have one for fan, horn, pump, injectors, coil(s). Once you locate the cluster of relay and fuses, quick process of elimination to remove each one and map which deactivates what. (Same applies for fuses btw if no manual on hand)

 

Physical components- as far as physically id’ing filter/pump. Just trace the fuel line from the fuel rail back towards rear end and you’ll find them. Easier to do with car in the air but can do from above if you have access to tunnel and a removable boot section to access rear end area. If you don’t see pump in-line, then it’s in the tank. Typically a submissive pump will have a filter on unit and there will be another external serviceable filter in line between tank and rail. 

[mrmustang]

Well, the good news is, the in tank pump does work and cycles to build pressure before the starter is engaged.

 

Car has been moved in to the larger garage, now resides next to my tool box and work bench. Still unheated, but the closer I am to my tools, the more likely I am to motivate myself.

 

 

Bill

[mrmustang]

On 1/11/2025 at 5:58 AM, MV8 said:

Pics, an '03 owners manual, assembly manual, and the model of pectel would help.

 

Car still not on jack stands/ramps, hoping to get that done today so I can get a look under the car.

 

Pectel is a T2, with 24K miles on the car, at least 8,000 with the Zetec engine installed, I have to believe the ECU is tuned well, so I'm going to hold off trying to find a XP laptop and cable to communicate with it.

 

Ordered a new MSD coil pack and wire set

Have not decided on plugs yet, once it's on stands, I will to identify, then replace with new

Have a note on the windscreen to check fuel injectors to see if they are high or low impedance (research shows Pectel uses high impedance), may want to replace, still doing research.

Fuel filter is a must to replace once I find and identify.

Also need to check all fuel lines and fittings, I do not smell gas, but they are 23 years old...

Need to pull the air filter (on stands) and check to see if anything is loose on the induction system.

Once the car is running with new parts, will check for vacuum leak(s).

 

Anything else come to mind?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Bill

 

[MV8]

Many have adapted efi by running power directly from the ignition to an efi pump or relay. The issue can be flooding or hydraulic lock of a cylinder due to an "in the moment" leaking injector. That is partly why pumps only run for a few seconds during initial cranking. Also, direct power means the pump may continue to pump after an accident, spraying or misting fuel from cracked or broken fuel lines. Safety shutoffs used by oems over the years include vane air flow sensors (mazda), oil pressure (GM), and a resettable inertia switch (Ford) and other mfgs with different combinations but typical of these three mfgs through the 90s at least.  

If the injectors are new to the ecu (could be bigger and not yet tuned) and low impedance, the injector drivers inside the ecu can be overheated and ruin the ecu. Pectel T2 specifies "high impedance only". I would determine what you have before running it again but it probably would have already ruined the ecu already with the first drive.

I like to use a common ford application fuel filter which is also an effective fuel tank vacuum break expansion canister vent (mounted vertical with the upper hose bent around and extending to near the bottom of the chassis). One application is a '94 ford ranger. It has 5/16 barbs made for quick disconnect nylon hose fittings. 5/16 efi hose can be pushed directly on and clamped or the nylon quick disconnect fittings used with nylon or rubber hose installed on the fitting.

You may be able to use your current lap top to install XP in a DOS shell, but it would be dirt cheap to find an old lap top and use a power converter to plug it into the car if a new, replacement lap top battery is not available.

Edited Thursday at 12:18 PM by MV8

[speedwagon]

I am following this topic as I have an old haltech (e6ex i think) that uses ms dos, and I haven't established the windows 10 will get the job done.  Thanks to all here as for me every day is a learning experience.

[mrmustang]

2 hours ago, MV8 said:

Many have adapted efi by running power directly from the ignition to an efi pump or relay. The issue can be flooding or hydraulic lock of a cylinder due to an "in the moment" leaking injector. That is partly why pumps only run for a few seconds during initial cranking. Also, direct power means the pump may continue to pump after an accident, spraying or misting fuel from cracked or broken fuel lines. Safety shutoffs used by oems over the years include vane air flow sensors (mazda), oil pressure (GM), and a resettable inertia switch (Ford) and other mfgs with different combinations but typical of these three mfgs through the 90s at least.  

If the injectors are new to the ecu (could be bigger and not yet tuned) and low impedance, the injector drivers inside the ecu can be overheated and ruin the ecu. Pectel T2 specifies "high impedance only". I would determine what you have before running it again but it probably would have already ruined the ecu already with the first drive.

I like to use a common ford application fuel filter which is also an effective fuel tank vacuum break expansion canister vent (mounted vertical with the upper hose bent around and extending to near the bottom of the chassis). One application is a '94 ford ranger. It has 5/16 barbs made for quick disconnect nylon hose fittings. 5/16 efi hose can be pushed directly on and clamped or the nylon quick disconnect fittings used with nylon or rubber hose installed on the fitting.

You may be able to use your current lap top to install XP in a DOS shell, but it would be dirt cheap to find an old lap top and use a power converter to plug it into the car if a new, replacement lap top battery is not available.

Motivated after a full pot of coffee and a bagel this am, the car is now up in the air (or as far as I can get it), hood is off, and I've had a chance to crawl under to look things over. Found a nice tidy Caterham sump, really nice install of the harnesses, although I've got a drop of oil on the floor, but it's not coming from the pan, I'll figure that one out.

Injectors are a "D1610BA" which translate to a 30lb/hr low impedance unit, I'm wondering how long they have been installed, too clean to be the originals, but they have to go as the Percel unit specifies high impedance injectors.

Fuel filter is a mystery item, as I cannot find a part number on it, the body itself is 3" long, have not figured out threading yet, almost afraid to take it off as it may be under pressure. Don't want to spray myself with fuel.

With the current induction setup, shouldn't one of the butterflies be slightly open on a cold start? These are all adjusted the same, closed..

 

Aside from that, the spark plugs are Autolite 5364s, the gap right out of the box and not new, wires, while NGK units, are self made, and semi questionable. Coil is a stock Ford unit (2003 dated).

 

Besides the MSD coil and wire set, I'm going to bump up to the XP5364 (Iridium tip), oil and filter change, and try to figure out a replacement high impedance injector (does not have to be much larger than the 30lb/hr, if larger at all).

 

Any one that can assist, or perhaps guide me a little here or there, as always, the assistance is greatly appreciated.

 

Bill

[mrmustang]

17 minutes ago, speedwagon said:

I am following this topic as I have an old haltech (e6ex i think) that uses ms dos, and I haven't established the windows 10 will get the job done.  Thanks to all here as for me every day is a learning experience.

The paperwork I have from Pectel showed a WIN 98 or WIN XP platform, I have the CD, but have yet to load it on my old Windows 10 laptop. I may blow the dust off it and see if it will load and open the program.

 

Thanks

 

Bill

[JohnCh]

39 minutes ago, mrmustang said:

Injectors are a "D1610BA" which translate to a 30lb/hr low impedance unit, I'm wondering how long they have been installed, too clean to be the originals, but they have to go as the Percel unit specifies high impedance injectors.

 

Have you checked for a resistor pack between the ECU and injectors?  It's possible someone added something to compensate for the low impedance.

[MV8]

Looks like a Chevrolet fuel filter common through the late 90s, plus adapters to fit the hard lines. Look up a 1990 c1500 pickup for an application. Wix 33481 and Fram G3727 are a couple part numbers. The rubber fuel hose near the filter can be replaced by cutting the sleeve over the end, then use a flat screwdriver to bend the edges out and pull it off with pliers. Use a hose clamp.

 

If you wanted to rearrange, you could use a late 80s s10 fuel filter with a hose barb on the tank end and an inverted flare brake line on the fuel rail end, wix 33483 or use the ranger filter. Many options.

[mrmustang]

1 hour ago, JohnCh said:

 

Have you checked for a resistor pack between the ECU and injectors?  It's possible someone added something to compensate for the low impedance.

Just checked the whole harness as far back as I could see without viewing a resistor pack.

 

46 minutes ago, MV8 said:

Looks like a Chevrolet fuel filter common through the late 90s, plus adapters to fit the hard lines. Look up a 1990 c1500 pickup for an application. Wix 33481 and Fram G3727 are a couple part numbers. The rubber fuel hose near the filter can be replaced by cutting the sleeve over the end, then use a flat screwdriver to bend the edges out and pull it off with pliers. Use a hose clamp.

 

If you wanted to rearrange, you could use a late 80s s10 fuel filter with a hose barb on the tank end and an inverted flare brake line on the fuel rail end, wix 33483 or use the ranger filter. Many options.

Really hate to cut a line with a factory end on it, however, I think you are on to something with the Fram G3727 , I had thought about a ACDelco GF952,(5.75 x 2.44 x 2.37 inches) might grab both and see which fits better, with less adapters. May bite the bullet and pull the old one to see if there is a part number on the back of it. Doubt it, but you never know

Two new pictures showing actual length (not the 6.5" with all the adapters) but a hair over 4", real close to the Fram 4.35" height

 

Thank you once again for giving me leads.

[CarlB]

You have already figured out the ECU runs the pump before you crank the engine. Pactel ECUs also turn the pump off if the engine loses oil pressure. That assumes it is wired correctly. The fuel injection system you have is now supported and sold by Borla. The blue thing in the picture of the fuel injector is the pressure regulator and there should be a tank return line. I am not 100% sure but I believe that the Pectel ECU can support either low or high impedance injectors. You might want to check or just replace with a known good crank sensor. They go bad, and they are cheap. It is located on the exhaust side of the engine and reads off the flywheel. 

 

 

[CarlB]

You might find this helpful

 

[MV8]

15 hours ago, CarlB said:

You have already figured out the ECU runs the pump before you crank the engine. Pactel ECUs also turn the pump off if the engine loses oil pressure. That assumes it is wired correctly. The fuel injection system you have is now supported and sold by Borla. The blue thing in the picture of the fuel injector is the pressure regulator and there should be a tank return line. I am not 100% sure but I believe that the Pectel ECU can support either low or high impedance injectors. You might want to check or just replace with a known good crank sensor. They go bad, and they are cheap. It is located on the exhaust side of the engine and reads off the flywheel. 

 

 

He has not. The source of the T2 and the programming have not been shown. These are programmable outputs. If you look at a Pectel pinout for the T2, it clearly states "high impedance only" with the pins in your diagram listed as fuel control being programmable outputs. Fuel pump control is not the default from Pectel, so if the T2 is from CAT and programmed by CAT, and was part of the rover package, then it is likely to have the controls you've described.

 

 

 

 

Edited 14 hours ago by MV8

[mrmustang]

2 hours ago, MV8 said:

He has not. The source of the T2 and the programming have not been shown. These are programmable outputs. If you look at a Pectel pinout for the T2, it clearly states "high impedance only" with the pins in your diagram listed as fuel control being programmable outputs. Fuel pump control is not the default from Pectel, so if the T2 is from CAT and programmed by CAT, and was part of the rover package, then it is likely to have the controls you've described.

 

 

 

 

The Pectel T2 was sourced after the car was pulled out of it's 20 foot Sealand style container here in the US from Caterham USA, along with the "stage 1" engine (I know this included a cam change, but have no clue as to what cam, or anything else that included for the 10K plus the original owner was charged), I have those general emails. The in tank fuel pump kicks in and builds pressure when the battery disconnect is turned on, then kicks off once pressure builds. I found this out yesterday when testing another battery cut off key I had in my toolbox from an old race car. It fit, and works, so that is one less thing I need to order as a back up. I have 30lb/hr high impedance fuel injectors on order, besides oil (5 quarts I believe for the Caterham wet sump pan) and an oil filter (I'll pick those up today), everything is on it's way. Now the only thing I do not have is a computer cable for the T2 to laptop, have no idea exactly what I need, can you assist with a part number or a supplier for this?

 

Appreciate everything you have offered this fellow Pectel T2 (amateur) owner.

 

 

Bill

[CarlB]

The Pactel ECU is still used in the SCCA formula continental cars. These cars use a modified Zetec engine. Engine builders who build these engines might be a source. You might try Quicksilver Race Engines (301-698-9009)

[mrmustang]

25 minutes ago, CarlB said:

The Pactel ECU is still used in the SCCA formula continental cars. These cars use a modified Zetec engine. Engine builders who build these engines might be a source. You might try Quicksilver Race Engines (301-698-9009)

Thanks, I'll give them a call

[MV8]

If you saying the pump runs as soon as the battery is connected but with the key off, then it sounds like the CAT sourced T2 is configured for pump control but is miswired for power to the ecu or the pump. If the T2 had power all the time I expect you would not be able to shut it off with the key (ignition stays on as well). I'd pull the pump relay and see if the pump still runs and do the same with just the fuse pulled. If it stops, trace from the relay to power and ground on the relay control terminals. The fuse socket should not be shorted to more than one terminal of the relay socket.