I Could Be Perswayded

[IamScotticus]

OK, apparently understeer is a thing.  In a 1200 lb car, it's a common thing.  Vary likely accounting for 1/3 of track accidents?  Wirh some skill oversteer is recoverable.  But with understeer,  grip tends to let loose and you're into the wall very suddenly.  And not just on the track.  I believe with enough effort,  it's very achievable on the street, if one gets too carried away.

And let's admit it, we are in these cars to get carried away.  So we remind ourselves before every drive, "this car will kill me".   please.  Let's not get carried away..

Or can I adjust my sway bar?

Who started this thick sway bar business?  Is it not sensible that preventing understeer is partly having weight on that front outside tyre?  When the car rolls in a turn, it dips, transferring weight to the outside tyre.  If you throttle steer, I believe,  you are doing this intentionally,  putting weight where it's needed to overcome understeer.  So why have a front sway bar that is too heavy?  Cat offer a range of sway bar torsions.  I believe I have the 1/2" color code red one.  I think it's the thickest one.  Should I consider going to a lower torsion bar for street?

Edited June 11, 2025 by IamScotticus

[MV8]

Thicker bars do not always increase understeer. The camber loss on the outside tire is one reason to reduce roll with a thicker bar. Adding weight works up to a point where the net traction is actually reduced. The point of the bar is to balance front and rear.

 

If you want more roll, remove it and take it for a short drive. It will at least show how effective the current bar is. I'd probably go bigger but keep the old one. I'd consider limiting front roll to no less than 4 degrees, then if it pushes in tight turns, consider a pencil thin rear bar for minimal oversteer.

 

 

 

Edited June 11, 2025 by MV8

[craig chima]

Understeer is much more controllable and far more desirable than oversteer for beginner/intermediate drivers.

[Christopher smith]

The USA car manufacturers and other makers seem to have always favored understeer and designed for it in an effort to protect drivers who do not have the skill to deal with oversteer. Having driven all sorts of rental vehicles for business in various road conditions I always was extra careful and conservative particularly with front wheel drive vehicles. The exceptions for sure  were  in Britain in an early Toyota MR2 and also an early rear drive Escort. They were actually fun to drive on the twisty back roads. I guess the preference for the track is what makes you go faster rather than choosing to hit the wall with the front or the rear. I opted for just a bit of oversteer but that was long ago and not in a 7 so my opinion may not count for much.

[KnifeySpoony]

Most trackday wall inspections I've seen (in person or on video) involve oversteer. Rarely do people just terminal understeer into a tire barrier. 

 

Any car, though especially a car like a 7 (with even weight distro front/rear), can be easily balanced to the driver's tastes with spring rates, ARBs, and tire widths. IMO ideally a good car with good setup allows it to be adjustable at any phase of a corner depending on my inputs. 

 

 

[IamScotticus]

2 hours ago, Christopher smith said:

so my opinion may not count for much

Wrong 

[Christopher smith]

I guess it depends on what car and what you are trying to do with it as it varies widely. A bit of oversteer seems like fun but is not necessarily the fastest way around for some of us. However, everyone should, at least one time, watch the sprint car guys on a dirt oval then tell us about oversteer. By the way, their preferred tires look like an exact copy of the old Dunlop R5s from Formula 1 1960s. For autocross the hot set-up was race slicks on the front and street radials on the back. But that was back in the 1960s and I assume not allowed now. For SCCA regionals in my very old F production Sunbeam Alpine, I enjoyed outqualifying some of the E production cars, but those pesky 7 Americas in F with the Sprite engines would always fly through the corners and the D Production 7s with the 1500 Cosworth were way ahead. Later, a 5 liter Mustang was a real handful running with the Corvettes ,Camaros etc. so we did not want any major oversteer. Track day had not been invented yet so we did the best we could.

[wdb]

19 hours ago, Christopher smith said:

 However, everyone should, at least one time, watch the sprint car guys on a dirt oval then tell us about oversteer. 

 

I once saw a fellow named Hal Keck drive a 427 Cobra up Duryea Drive in Reading PA during the annual hillclimb event. He drove it like a sprint car around the switchbacks. Chuck it in, gas it to get the back end out, hold that pose until he saw daylight, then bam -- full gas. It was an unforgettable sight. (This was back when the Cobra was still a "new" car and race tires weren't as gummy as today.)

[Christopher smith]

I may have been to that same event. Saw him at The Glen, Bridgehampton, Pocono maybe as well. Great fun back then. I think I recall that the first Cobras did have tire traction issues until they tried Goodyear stock car rubber. Penske was our local dealer out in West Philadelphia and we got scrubbed Indy Car tires from him for a Mustang. Talk about loads of traction! Crazy times.