HPDE in a 7 questions.

[SocalFlyer]

Trying to decide if a 7 is the next step for a track day / fair weather toy.  I've been running a Miata on track for about 10 years now with 100+ track days, do my all own wrenching that doesn't involve opening a motor or transmission.  Going to keep the Miata for my kid to learn the basics and am trying to decide between a Caterham or an Elise.  

For the folks that track their cars often, does being on the wrong side of the pond create any issues with getting consumables or parts?  Also, any drivetrains that are more suitable for track use and ones to avoid?  Reliability, serviceability/replacement cost, speed, in that order.

Thanks, appreciate any and all advice related to tracking and comparison to the Elise as well.

[CarlB]

I use my Caterham for track days. Everything you like about your Miata will be better in a 7. Last year when I went to a new track, I followed a Miata I though was well driven to learn the line and understand the track. The next session I followed for a bit, and when we came in his comment was wow can that thing turn. It is like hooking your brain up to the tires. There isn't any delay in response. The seating position is as far back as it can be and that gives you a very clear idea about over or under steer. Depending on the power the car is very easy to drive with the throttle, and they are very easy to drive. I let the guy that does all the track testing for Grassroots Motorsports magazine drive my car. We had had some correspondence over an editorial he had written that suggested people would stop building their own cars and buy factory race cars. He was very impressed with the driver assist in the car. I pointed out I had a car without any assist that was better, and he politely disagreed. At an autocross I let him drive the car. When he came in from the run, he removed his helmet and looked up to me and said this car does everything right. Drive one, you will love it. 

The parts are easy to get and there are UK suppliers that are selling part to the US all the time. One very good one is Redline.  There are dealers and they all seem to have a good reputation, but I do not have any experience with them except one. Beachman Racing knows their stuff and are great to deal with. For me being on the East Coast, it is a little more challenging to get parts from him, but his help can make it worth it. If you have a track toy Miata, you have accepted a higher level of maintenance than a street car. If you use the car on track, you need more maintenance, but a 7 isn't high maintenance compared to a race car. A lot depends on how much power the engine makes. Faster cars require more maintenance. Brake pads last a season. I am 75 and not as flexible as I once was. The cars are easy to work on. I mentioned the Grassroots editor. He did a video track test on my car. He compared my car to one of the Miata factory race cars that are used in the MX-5 cup, and my car's time was a little faster than the Toyota Supera. It is an old video, but I think it is still on their site. My car at the time had about 180 HP and was on the Avon street tire called the ZZS.         

[JohnCh]

I had to look for the video 

 

 

[SocalFlyer]

Thanks for the replies, the MX5 cup car is actually the performance target for the next car.  The video's praise on brake feel is specifically is what I'm looking for.

Just wonder how many folks drive their cars long distances to tracks.  It will be 2-6 hr drives for me, figure it would be no worst than on a motorcycle.  

My Miata is usually up on stands the day after a track day and I give everything a once over, with the 7 ever less stuff in the way.

Edited April 3 by SocalFlyer

[Croc]

 

Your average Caterham 420 will be faster around pretty much most tracks and an MX5 Cup car.  Power to weight makes that so.  

 

It will be a better driving experience on track too.  Lighter.  More nimble.  Less need for braking.  Greater momentum.  

 

Consumables will be better too.  15000 miles and I am still on original pads and disks.  Probably another 5000 miles to go on fronts bbefore I replace them.  At least 30K on the rear pads before they need replacing.  Fluids change once a year.  Set of slicks every 1-2 years.  Cheap you say.  During the year, I give the car a quick 1 hour once over then head out on track.  At winter break it gets a thorough spanner check and full fluids, filters, etc. replacement.  

 

Where the maintenance equation starts to invert compared to the MX5 is on the heavier items - gearbox and diff.   I've been through two Caterham 6 speed boxes in the CSR in 15K miles.  On the 420R I have broken one MX5 gearbox (selector forks) in about 20K.  For the 620S it is 5K mileage and is now one wheel drive as the Titan/BMW diff has broken its plates (notorious issue covered in other threads).    The Caterham borrows pieces from other cars and they just do not perform to the design life as in their original cars as the installation design is flawed as it is adapted to a Caterham.  The MX5 gearbox tail shaft bearing as adapted for the Caterham is another example of a maintenance issue just waiting to happen in higher hp Caterhams.  But these are as you hit higher mileages and should be less frequent (if you exclude the inexcusable low mileage Titan/BMW diff issues).  Anticipate these and you will have a cheaper maintenance experience in a Caterham with not much down time.  If you do not anticipate, then your downtime will be much longer than it takes to get an MX5 back up and running.    Fortunately, we have access to a good dealer network in the USA but even so it takes time to get a suitable durable replacement bit state-side (e.g. 4 months for a trick bullet proof BMW LSD replacement).  

 

So its a mixed story.  

 

There are people on here who do drive to track days.  10+ years ago I used to do the 2 hour trip up and down I-95 to have a track day.  But that got old in a hurry plus I-95 was a high risk endeavor.  There are other @CBuff who is currently doing it but I expect he will be worn down eventually.  A Caterham is just not as nice on its shuttle runs to a track.  Then you have to ask, what if you break something at a track and cannot drive home?  cough cough Simon, Vlad, etc....  (solution - have a nice friend with a garage at the track! )  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CBuff]

32 minutes ago, Croc said:

There are other @CBuff who is currently doing it but I expect he will be worn down eventually

I’m not there yet but your point is valid. I’ve put over 10k miles since June 2024. Njmp, lime rock, New York safety track all driven to.  The thought of breaking down at the track and being stuck was a concern but I am more confident now then when I started. More likely I stuff it and break something vs something just breaking. Maybe if I lived outside of the city and had a garage for a trailer and a tow vehicle I would lean into that a bit more. 
 

I don’t mind driving it long hauls but it’s certainly not for everyone.   I would take it anywhere and am contemplating a run out west in the coming years. 
 

@Crocis on the nose with consumables etc. I have used up my original tires (Avon zzs) but other than fluids etc no real work needed. (Although my diff has started making new noises ). Baubles and bolt ons are optional but I have purchased some of those items. 
 

it does take some getting used to driving such a small car both on the road and the track. That might be the one thing you want to test out. I love it but it can be unnerving on the highway with 18wheelers and even suv around you. You have to assume no one sees you ever. Also on the track it’s nice to run with other 7s or open wheelers or even Miata type. The gtr, mustang, corvettes crowd looks huge next to you. 
 

Here is a run to nyst (maybe 3 1/2 hours away). And if you’re smarter than me you would put the top up before it rains. 

 

 

Edited Friday at 10:09 PM by CBuff

[CarlB]

My car has the Caterham AP brakes. The regular brakes are very good, but if you really use your brakes the AP brakes are better. At the time of the test, I think the car could have used more rear brake. I do not consider myself a very good driver and I had never been to that track. I had the car setup so I wasn’t going to get in trouble. If you get a 420R with 200 HP you will easily be faster than a MX-5 factory race car.