Good Political cartoon

[Mandurath]

I too am not allowed at some of the family gatherings until after the election. Too many strong willed people with opposing views. (read unwilling to compromise, I am including myself, ie polite way of saying bullheaded) I do enjoy that the political stays pretty civil here. Likely do to age I think the most spirited discussion I have seen here was brand related.

 

As far as your F350, save your bumper. I would the cattle catcher on my freightliner. Politicians cannot be much harder to clean up than swamp bugs (god save the atom or seven driver with aero screens that ever hits one of those monsters) or road kill.

[Mondo]

I'll bite....

 

Seems for Republicans (stereotyping) that there is never a time to raise taxes.... bad economy, not a good time... good economy, give it back. We're at war and Bush only wants the soldiers to bear the burden. If going over there is worth it than let's pay for it, not our children/grandchildren. Infrastructure is crumbling since we won't contribute to the common good like our grandparents did.

In California, the only time Republicans have power is during the budget as it takes 2/3rd majority to pass. The mantra of no new taxes while using smoke and mirrors to not make the necessary cuts to balance the budget(along with Democrats) is really sending this State into a tailspin.

I say we'd be better off paying taxes to truly balance the budget and then the uprising over the true costs would require politicians make the required cuts that democrats don't currently have the nerve to make.

And yes, it's nice that everyone is playing nice on this topic.

[slngsht]

Mondo, I agree with your major points:

1- pay as you go - force balanced budget at both the federal and state levels

2- proper financing on the war

 

[WestTexasS2K]

Mondo I agree. It seems to me that a flat fair tax would make things so much better. Then there is no doubt that everyone pays an amount that is compairable to their pay. Of course that is going to cause a whole lot of people to lose their job preparing taxes.

[ayseven]

C'mon Ian, what's the fun in that??????

[oilteq]

With sports cars, bikinis, and government, less is more.

[slngsht]

Mondo I agree. It seems to me that a flat fair tax would make things so much better. Then there is no doubt that everyone pays an amount that is compairable to their pay. Of course that is going to cause a whole lot of people to lose their job preparing taxes.

 

Either that, or make everything consumption based, not income / asset based.

[Davemk1]

Good Morning,

 

Man it is dark now in the morning..... this time change deal is for the birds.

 

I'm afraid that my previous remarks weren't taken at face value. Some good folks have pointed out the obvious that certain things, like schools, are paid for with local taxes. I think most of us know this and if you read my previous post you notice that no where did I single out federal tax or national government. I'm talking about taxes in general - local all the way to federal taxes. Taxes in general. All the politicians I know of from the guy running for the local school board to the presidential candidates are telling us the same thing....... we can have it all and we/you shouldn't have to pay for it. Sounds like entitlement to me. My point, if weakly made, was that we want our government(s) to provide certain services and yet the representatives of those governments all tell us we shouldn't have to pay. My basic understanding of economics and checkbook balancing tells me that this doesn't ad up.

 

We have a very local issue here in Bozeman MT. Bozeman is growing very quickly and our infrastructure isn't keeping up. We have a serious lack of jail cells. There are many folks that are being sent home after repeat offenses because the jails are over crowded and the local public is very upset. Yet, time after time, "we" have voted to not pay more taxes that would allow for a bigger jail to deal with serious criminals. So we have more and more repeat offenses and higher crime rates and the public is outraged. "Someone" should have to pay for it but it shouldn't be me! A "not in my backyard" kind of thing.

 

I know Bozeman isn't alone with this type of thing and that it's going on in lots of places yet we the public sit placidly in front of the TV and nod with approval every time we are told that it shouldn't be us that has to pay. I feel this will be an issue until we voters as a group mature enough to look at the big picture and realize that it is "our" problem and that we all have to pay for these things that we feel are valuable. Whether it well paid teachers or properly cared for Vets all that money comes from taxes that we need to pay.

 

I know I'm not telling anyone anything that they don't already know. I just wanted to let folks know that I'm not as ignorant that some might think I am.

 

Enjoy the rest of your weekend and please exercise your right to vote and do so with full and deep thought.

 

All the best,

 

Dave

[WestTexasS2K]

 

I know I'm not telling anyone anything that they don't already know. I just wanted to let folks know that I'm not as ignorant that some might think I am.

Dave

 

I dont think anyone has implied anyone is ignorant. We all have views and thoughts that support our needs and wants. I have no problem paying taxes when they are not wasted.

 

For instance we have a school bond issue that is coming up for a 150 million dollars school renovation program. I want better schools for my kids and nicer facilities for them and future kids to have. But 50 million is going to be spent on a new athletic center that just 3 years ago they spent 5 million on to make renovations. They now want to tear all that down and do over. That is just waste of my tax money. There are probably 1 million instances like that in federal goverment every day. I just want the waste to stop.

[gjslutz]

As a friend of mine said many years ago:

 

“Thank god we don’t get all the government we pay for”.

 

If we would just receive 50% of what we paid for, we could reduce all taxes by 50 %. Look at what the hogs are doing with the bail out $$$. They are still buying votes and blowing our money with it. I as well as most Americans was against this pork loaded pile of cash handed out to the same thieves who were responsible for the mess. My thoughts extend down to state and local government as well. If government, were as responsible as most small business owners we wouldn’t be in this mess.

 

We need more like Arizona’s Sheriff Joe Aparo in government.

 

Gary

 

[slngsht]

Good Morning,

 

Man it is dark now in the morning..... this time change deal is for the birds.

 

I'm afraid that my previous remarks weren't taken at face value. Some good folks have pointed out the obvious that certain things, like schools, are paid for with local taxes. I think most of us know this and if you read my previous post you notice that no where did I single out federal tax or national government. I'm talking about taxes in general - local all the way to federal taxes. Taxes in general. All the politicians I know of from the guy running for the local school board to the presidential candidates are telling us the same thing....... we can have it all and we/you shouldn't have to pay for it. Sounds like entitlement to me. My point, if weakly made, was that we want our government(s) to provide certain services and yet the representatives of those governments all tell us we shouldn't have to pay. My basic understanding of economics and checkbook balancing tells me that this doesn't ad up.

 

We have a very local issue here in Bozeman MT. Bozeman is growing very quickly and our infrastructure isn't keeping up. We have a serious lack of jail cells. There are many folks that are being sent home after repeat offenses because the jails are over crowded and the local public is very upset. Yet, time after time, "we" have voted to not pay more taxes that would allow for a bigger jail to deal with serious criminals. So we have more and more repeat offenses and higher crime rates and the public is outraged. "Someone" should have to pay for it but it shouldn't be me! A "not in my backyard" kind of thing.

 

I know Bozeman isn't alone with this type of thing and that it's going on in lots of places yet we the public sit placidly in front of the TV and nod with approval every time we are told that it shouldn't be us that has to pay. I feel this will be an issue until we voters as a group mature enough to look at the big picture and realize that it is "our" problem and that we all have to pay for these things that we feel are valuable. Whether it well paid teachers or properly cared for Vets all that money comes from taxes that we need to pay.

 

I know I'm not telling anyone anything that they don't already know. I just wanted to let folks know that I'm not as ignorant that some might think I am.

 

Enjoy the rest of your weekend and please exercise your right to vote and do so with full and deep thought.

 

All the best,

 

Dave

 

Dave, believe me, the word "ignorant", did not EVEN REMOTELY enter my mind.

 

I took the context as "federal taxes" because we were talking about national elections. I agree that even on the local level, tax issues are a touchy issue. My position on that is that government does not put as much effort in running more efficiently, as it does in trying to get more revenue. But at least with local government, I feel more empowered to do something - heck, even run for office.

 

I favor LESS Federal government control, MORE local government control. Even if in the end, overall $$$ are the same.

 

To give you an example of the efficiency problem, our local school district pays $1000 for each desktop computer! My jaw dropped when I heard that. Do you know how I know? because there weren't enough computers in the school, and the PTA raised 20K to buy 20 computers (had to be purchased through the county contract). Now, just picture this: How likely are you to buy a computer from a store at $1000, when you can go online and buy the SAME EXACT THING for $600? Would you not be pissed if someone in your family came happily home with a $1000 receipt for a $600 computer? That's how my local government operates... and they ALWAYS ask for more money. THAT gets under my skin. To that end, that was McCain's point about the way fed contracts are done. Spending less does not always equal getting less. I spent a few years working on federal contracts. The main reason I got out is that all the waste really pissed me off.

 

 

[slngsht]

As a friend of mine said many years ago:

 

“Thank god we don’t get all the government we pay for”.

 

If we would just receive 50% of what we paid for, we could reduce all taxes by 50 %. Look at what the hogs are doing with the bail out $$$. They are still buying votes and blowing our money with it. I as well as most Americans was against this pork loaded pile of cash handed out to the same thieves who were responsible for the mess. My thoughts extend down to state and local government as well. If government, were as responsible as most small business owners we wouldn’t be in this mess.

 

We need more like Arizona’s Sheriff Joe Aparo in government.

 

Gary

 

Don't EVEN get me started on the bailout :rofl:

[powderbrake]

 

Dave, believe me, the word "ignorant", did not EVEN REMOTELY enter my mind.

 

I took the context as "federal taxes" because we were talking about national elections. I agree that even on the local level, tax issues are a touchy issue. My position on that is that government does not put as much effort in running more efficiently, as it does in trying to get more revenue. But at least with local government, I feel more empowered to do something - heck, even run for office.

 

I favor LESS Federal government control, MORE local government control.

 

Diito me on that.

*************************************************

Here's a thought for Tuesday

 

While walking down the street one day a US senator is tragically hit by a truck and dies.

 

His soul arrives in heaven and is met by St. Peter at the entrance.

 

"Welcome to heaven," says St. Peter. "Before you settle in, it seems there is a problem. We seldom see a high official around these parts, you see, so we're not sure what to do with you."

 

"No problem, just let me in," says the senator.

 

"Well, I'd like to, but I have orders from higher up. What we'll do is have you spend one day in hell and one in heaven. Then you can choose where to spend eternity."

 

"Really, I've made up my mind. I want to be in heaven," says the senator.

 

"I'm sorry, but we have our rules."

 

And with that, St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down, down, down to hell. The doors open and he finds himself in the middle of a green golf course. In the distance is a clubhouse and standing in front of it are all his friends and other politicians who had worked with him.

 

Everyone is very happy and in evening dress. They run to greet him, shake his hand, and reminisce about the good times they had while getting rich at the expense of the people.

 

They play a friendly game of golf and then dine on lobster, caviar and champagne.

 

Also present is the devil, who really is a very friendly guy who has a good time dancing and telling jokes. They are having such a good time that before he realizes it, it is time to go.

 

Everyone gives him a hearty farewell and waves while the elevator rises ...

 

The elevator goes up, up, up and the door reopens on heaven where St.

 

Peter is waiting for him.

 

"Now it's time to visit heaven."

 

So, 24 hours pass with the senator joining a group of contented souls moving from cloud to cloud, playing the harp and singing. They have a good time and, before he realizes it, the 24 hours have gone by and St.

 

Peter returns.

 

"Well, then, you've spent a day in hell and another in heaven. Now choose your eternity."

 

The senator reflects for a minute, then answers: "Well, I would never have said it before, I mean heaven has been delightful, but I think I would be better off in hell."

 

So St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down, down, down to hell.

 

Now the doors of the elevator open and he's in the middle of a barren land covered with waste and garbage.

 

He sees all his friends, dressed in rags, picking up the trash and putting it in black bags as more trash falls from above...

 

The devil comes over to him and puts his arm around his shoulder. "I don't understand," stammers the senator. "Yesterday I was here and there was a golf course and clubhouse, and we ate lobster and caviar, drank champagne, and danced and had a great time. Now there's just a wasteland full of garbage and my friends look miserable. What happened?"

 

The devil looks at him, smiles and says.......

 

"Yesterday we were campaigning. Today you voted."

 

 

 

 

[WestTexasS2K]

:lol: Pwrbrake that was good.

[andrew7]

All of you made great points but I think you need to have a sense of humor, their only campainin.

 

http://www.jibjab.com/originals/time_for_some_campaignin

 

 

[gjslutz]

I also read things I could agree on in all the posts. Like Mazda I see the waste in spending and corrupt contract practices. Like Dave, when we had a business we supported our small struggling township police dept. and fire dept. with pre tax money. Each year I met with the chief of both, and through the township office we listed what the money would purchase. After a few years of watching both departments operate I dropped the police dept. due to what I perceived as excessive waste and poor management. My point, we had the choice to give not having it taken and wasted. Our contribution had no strings other than their accountability.

 

Voting is like life, it is not a dress rehearsal. Get it right, and most get one vote & one chance.

 

Gary

 

[Mondo]

Having worked in government it is often frustrating to go by all the rules that get piled on and sometimes conflict. I understand the rules are there because somewhere/sometime things went wrong... For example, having to accept the lowest bid can end up causing problems, especially when it comes to service, parts, warranty etc..

 

I have to admit getting burned when first learning the system (thankfully nothing in the hundreds of thousands). It takes a lot of effort to get an exemption for certain rules (guess that's how it should be) and some employees are too complacent or get bamboozled by the salesmen etc...

 

Keep in mind the ones ripping off the taxpayer are private companies, it's not the government itself (unless it's something illegal). There's a balance between oversight and beauracracy.. several have pointed to the ramifications of when it's not done right. Often head's should roll but trying to get a civil servant fired is a whole other topic that I'm familiar with:mad:

[spotcheck]

....I think you need to have a sense of humor....

 

Just caught back up on the conversation - this clip is non-partisan, true, and hilarious. The general thread topics are non-partisan and true, but not sadly not at all funny.

 

Not to redirect the flow or anything, but...

 

The McCain of 2008 was not the McCain of 2000, for exactly the reasons in the clip. I believe the 2000 version would have won. Not saying I did or did not want rev.2000 to win, just believe he would have.

 

This election, however, is remarkable from any perspective, meaning this: As a kid, I lived for a few years in the early 1960's in Leesburg, VA, now a hi-growth, hi-tech, moderately (?) liberal city. Back then, however, they closed the municipal swimming pool rather than comply with the court's desegregation orders, and one block off the main street in town was a parallel street where black families lived - commonly referred to as "the alley" by my senior-citizen neighbors. I am not criticizing anyone, just setting the tone from nearly 5 decades ago. Leesburg is nothing remotely like that today, which is the point..............

 

Look forward 4 or 8 years, and imagine the country has watched two girls of African-American heritage grow up in the White House. Regardless of any political affiliation, think what will that mean to the national consciousness and discourse? I used to think the most remarkable thing I had a connection to was my Kansas farmer grandparents' lives spanning the era from no tractors to moon landings and laptops. Now I will have an experience to equal that.

 

May God bless and protect These United States of America.

 

 

 

[Boxologist]

^^^^

best perspective so far.

 

while i would love to say that the Feds have little impact in our lives, that simply is not true. The government runs by its mass, not its lead individual. my fears of this election were never so much as the canidates, as who would be let in thru the gates following him. I think we have installed ineptness this around instead of maliciousness. So my take for this election would be this

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s286/spitfiredc7/nasioc/duhface.gif

 

now that hundreds of millions of dollars have been wasted on a getting $400k/year job, we can all

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff200/heywhutsthat/OT/banana_squad.gifhttp://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff200/heywhutsthat/OT/banana_squad.gif

 

since its over!