Caterham USA Pricing

[MoPho]

I agreed with Yellowss7 - "I know it's contra to the party line, but 150 hp is plenty for a street going/autoxing seven. Even though I like the power level of mine, I've driven 135-150hp cars that seemed to handle better because I couldn't overdrive them. "

 

My silver Caterham with the 147 hp Zetec is easier to drive on the street and it is plenty fast on the track. My green Caterham with 205 hp SVT is faster but it requires a little more fitness around town to be smooth.

 

I have not found 200hp to be difficult to drive at all, find it just right actually. The only difficulty is in ones self control, which I fail miserably at

 

 

Jake is coming off a pretty bad ass Radical, so I imagine a lower horsepower 7 is not going to do it for him.

 

 

 

.

[BusaNostra]

Jturrell

 

Is A used one an option? http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/list.asp?p=1&s=39

 

In my opinion, $61, for any seven not worth buying.

Just me.

 

The only incentive you will get (with this type of car) is driving with "joy"

It's hard to correlate or justify value vs joy.

I don't look at any seven as future investment with a good return.

If I blow my money to a seven...that's it, don't expect depreciation....gone!

But my satisfaction driving 7 remains.

 

Buy a used one, sleep well and join the club.

[Kitcat]

Bad investment? My 8/63 Road and Track has an ad for a "Lotus Race Set" for $19, 885. Included was a Seven ($2,885); Lotus 22 ($5,965); Lotus 23 ($6,255); Elite ($4,780). These were also considered steep prices back then but think of what these would be worth today:).

[Ian7]

Jturrell

 

Is A used one an option? http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/list.asp?p=1&s=39

 

Buy a used one, sleep well and join the club.

 

Doesn't a used car have to be at least 25 years old to be legally imported to the US? Up here it's 15 years...

[BusaNostra]

 

Doesn't a used car have to be at least 25 years old to be legally imported to the US? Up here it's 15 years...

 

If I am not mistaken (someone can correct me), you can import any car in the world, bring to the US,

but does not mean you will be able to register until you meet EPA, DOT or U.S. safety standards.

 

 

Just like buying a kit car or clone.....you know how hard to register this sucker?

My car registration probaly up the value of my clone. My clone itself has no value...hahaha!

 

[scannon]

 

If I am not mistaken (someone can correct me), you can import any car in the world, bring to the US,

but does not mean you will be able to register until you meet EPA, DOT or U.S. safety standards.

 

 

Just like buying a kit car or clone.....you know how hard to register this sucker?

My car registration probaly up the value of my clone. My clone itself has no value...hahaha!

 

You would not be able to register a Se7en in the US if you imported a complete car newer than 1967. You could take it apart, ship it and then put it together again here and register it as a kit car. However in Colorado (and probably most other states) you have to show paperwork that you purchased the engine and trans from someone other than the person or dealer you bought the car from.

 

Single car certification (the gray market) in the USA went away years ago. If you want to go to the expense and the car was not a model ever sold here you can apply for type certification but that only works if you are going to import and sell a decent volume of cars of the same type to defray the costs of the testing and certification. The Smart cars that came in years before the official imports were done that way. They cost about double what they sold for in Europe.

 

Skip

[Alaskossie]

Scannon is basically right -- a complete car is difficult to import, unless it is 25 or more years old at the time of import (the 1967 deadline is no longer the benchmark; the 25-year rule is).

 

I speak from experience. I imported a 1980 M-B Unimog in 2005 with no problems from EPA or DOT. However, in 2001 I attempted to import a 1990 8X8 diesel truck from UK, that had an EPA-exempt diesel engine. The truck sat in bonded storage at the Port of Anchorage for more than 4 years (at $150 per month) while I argued with EPA and U.S. Customs over whether it should be classed as an "on-road vehicle with an off-road engine" (not importable), or an "off-road vehicle with an off-road engine" (importable if its max. speed is 25 mph or less). The EPA functionaries in DC were (and are) clueless about anything mechanical, but they throw their weight around like they are experts.

 

Busanostra wrote,

 

If I am not mistaken (someone can correct me), you can import any car in the world, bring to the US,

but does not mean you will be able to register until you meet EPA, DOT or U.S. safety standards.

 

That is not correct -- registration is the last step, a state-level function, once the vehicle has been released buy the Feds (if it is released). Until it is released, it sits in a no-man's land of bonded storage -- technically not yet physically entered into the USA. During this time US Customs tells you repeatedly that you have a deadline to either take the vehicle to a certified modification/conversion specialist to get it altered to meet US specs; re-export it back to where it came from or somewhere else; involuntarily allow US Customs to auction it off for re-export; or cut it up for scrap on the docks. Some choices....

 

Alaskossie

[BusaNostra]

I went to England and bought my Westfield.

They boxed and shipped in the US without engine and tranny. Declared auto parts.

Picked it, paid the custom & build the car. I met the requirement...boooom, I got my registration.

I guess it depends upon many scenarios. Commerical, personal, industrial use or kits??? You name it,

read the bible book of the custom. Too many interpretations.

Just like what you said, you think you are right & arguing for 4 years, you think the EPA is clueless?

[athens7]

Time or money; you spend one or the other. If you buy from Caterham USA, or a Caterham dealer, your only hassle is the state titling & registration (not necessarily without trauma-it took me 11 months to get my title!). Or, based on some of the anecdotes in this thread, you can do all the importing yourself and deal with the Feds, the shipper, etc. Also, the Caterham USA driveline will be, in most respects, ready to install and compatible with your chassis, vs. a complete engineer-it-yourself project. I've not for a single day regreted my purchase, but the car is a special purpose instrument and should not be bought new unless it's exactly what you want. The resale is fine, AFTER the initial depreciation, which seems to be substantial. I haven't seen a used Caterham change hands for over $50k, and this thread certianly illustrates what a well equipped new 7 costs, so it's not hard to do the depreciation math.

[pksurveyor]

When you buy a Caterham in UK, you need to pay the Queen 17.5% VAT. It is a lot more than the sales tax we pay here in the USA.

[slomove]

When you buy a Caterham in UK, you need to pay the Queen 17.5% VAT. It is a lot more than the sales tax we pay here in the USA.

 

True, but in the European Union the VAT is usually included in the listed price, except for business-to-business sales.

That means if you buy something for export out of the EU you can even get the 17.5% back (or not pay in the first place).

[BusaNostra]

Before I went to England, I contacted Westfield. I wired half of the money before I travelled. When I got there,

I paid the whole amount. I didn't pay any VAT. The original order was from the U.S.A.

There are so many things you can do to avoid this and that.

[jturrell]

Interesting. I just received an e-mail stating the following:

 

The new Caterham package comes with everything you need except an engine block and transmission. The old price required you to purchase an entire engine. The Duratec blocks are around $2,000.

 

This makes me feel a little better.

 

- Jake

[Doug Bond]

Yes it should. I sent you the email regarding the above. Take a look at the download for the various packages/cars from Caterham. You will note under the Roadsport, Superlight etc it states "ancillary" items after the different engine packages. You need to compare apples with apples which explains why the price of the cars appear more expensive but they come with everything you need to bolt onto the engine block which you must provide. Good Luck. Fight the Power

[yellowss7]

It's also interesting to note that the Carbon Fiber nosecone and rear wings are now options on the US superlights.

 

Tom

[MoPho]

Interesting. I just received an e-mail stating the following:

 

The new Caterham package comes with everything you need except an engine block and transmission. The old price required you to purchase an entire engine. The Duratec blocks are around $2,000.

 

This makes me feel a little better.

 

- Jake

 

 

It says on their website:

Kit includes all parts to assemble Superlight R400 including all engine and transmission installation parts and ancillaries, with the exception of a bare 2.0L Ford Duratec engine and a 5 or 6-spd transmission. Customer to supply bare 2.0L Ford Duratec engine and transmission separately.

 

 

Sounds like it is more than just the block, it's the whole engine you have to buy.

 

 

[Doug Bond]

Guys you can go back and forth what you need to supply i.e. engine, whole engine, block etc. or you can call UK Caterham and ask them.

[scannon]

 

 

Sounds like it is more than just the block, it's the whole engine you have to buy.

 

 

For $2,000 it better be at least a short block or even a long block engine.

 

I was talking to Ben at RMSC/Caterham USA a couple of months ago about this. He said they were trying to get Ford to sell them a Duratec engine without the parts that have to be replaced to go into a Caterham. Sounds like they have been successful.

 

Skip

[MoPho]

 

For $2,000 it better be at least a short block or even a long block engine.

 

I was talking to Ben at RMSC/Caterham USA a couple of months ago about this. He said they were trying to get Ford to sell them a Duratec engine without the parts that have to be replaced to go into a Caterham. Sounds like they have been successful.

 

Skip

 

So what exactly is included as ancillaries besides the starter and alternator? Is the intake system included in that?

 

In my book, a block means there is no head on it http://www.websmileys.com/sm/sad/533.gif

 

The engine and transmission package for the CSR260 we tested a couple of years ago was $20k, The 200hp Zetec engine and 6-speed transmission package was $13k, I can't imagine the price went down since then.

 

$2k seems cheap to me, but then again the engine rebuild on my Elan was over $10k :cry: (anyone want to buy an Elan?)

 

 

 

[Alaskossie]

Check with Ben at Rocky Mountain Sports cars, but I believe (after talking to him last month) that their price for a Caterham now includes all of the "go faster" parts that are needed to bring a cooking Duratec crate motor (supplied by the customer who purchases directly from Ford) up to Caterham performance specs; and the unneeded stock parts are simply stripped off the Duratec and replaced with the performance parts that came as part of the Caterham kit.

 

Due to DOT/EPA regulations and certification/crash test requirements, RMSC cannot supply the entire car, even if it is in pieces. The customer has to supply the engine and transmission, which he purchases directly from Ford or somewhere.

 

I bought my kit from RMSC in 2007, my transmission from the US Caterham distributor, and my tuned Duratec 2.3 from Cosworth USA.

 

Tom