slomove Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 (edited) I have been driving with ECB GreenStuff brake pads for the last 6 years with kind of mixed feelings. They are great on the track after a bit of warm-up, no fade ever and have a good "feel". The brake bias appears to be right as once a while I see a puff of smoke from the front tires on the track when braking too hard. However....on my car ('98 Birkin with VW GTI front and Honda Civic rear calipers) the brakes always required very serious pressure when cold on the highway. Occasionally my wife drives the Birkin and she just can not make the brakes lock (she is not a wimpy person). Anyway, I finally installed Hawk HP-Plus brake pads today and hope it gets easier on the road. If not I may install smaller master brake cylinders. Attached some pics of the old GreenStuff pads. These have 25k to 30k miles of use, mostly highway plus maybe some 15 trackdays. The rear pads are down to about 30% of the original thickness while the front pads almost look new, well maybe 80% of new. Does that sound reasonable? I am all in favor of long lasting equipment but when it comes to brake pads I would expect a bit more wear, being a friction device. Or is it that the 10" GTI brakes are oversized an just don't wear that much? Any opinion or related experience? Thanks, Gert P.S. come to think about it....the worn-off material volume of the small rear pads is probably similar to that of the larger front pads. Edited September 1, 2009 by slomove Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitcat Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 I just replaced my stock Caterham brake pads after 24K miles w/maybe 15 track days on them. They had 20-30% life left. Light car + modest top speed + built in air brake = excellent longevity. I used to replace pads on my Brembo-shod Evo every 3 track days and front rotors every 7-10 track days. Wasn't cheap. My stock pads work great on the road-light pressure is fine, and I have never had a braking problem at the track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southwind25 Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Our se7en going to be a test car for some brakes by KFP (kerr friction products). Shamless advertisment here, they used to supply us pads when i was racing the Healeys. in exchange i was a bilboard for them at the vintage races. KFP are competitors for hawk brakes and specialize in vintage sports cars/bikes/go carts etc.. They are going to try some compounds out on my car, if it works well i will report back on success OR failures. Gert, i have never been really happy with the feel of my brakes on the birkin se7en either.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitcat Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Robert: My pet peeves w/"racing" compound brake pads include: extreme squealing (x 4 wheels), and brake dust that can scar and pit the wheel and also ruin the paint, especially if the dust gets wet and then dries in place. The Porterfields on my Miata were guilty of the above. So I will be interested in how your new ones do. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slngsht Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Gert, I think long wear on brakes on a seven is no surprise. In addition to being light, it has the aero of a brick, and combination of aero and engine braking really reduces wear and tear on brakes. These cars also handle well, so I think without realizing it, we take alot of corners without using brakes, whereas with our other cars, it's not so. yeah, cold high performance brakes can be a bitch. I think an F1 driver once said (of cold brakes) "It's where you rest your foot on the way to a crash". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiva Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 You should try the Carbotech products... They are road (Bobcat) and multiple street/race and race compound. I use XP8 on my car and drive it on the road and can easily lock my front tires. And plenty of bite even with 300rwhp and 30mins track session. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGTorque Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 ahh vw brakes, i know them well. ive had mixed feelings regarding hawks pads, they seem to devour rotors. i currently use beck arnly pads on all my vw's and the cold stopping is unreal (11.3" rotor front 9.4" rear) if interested i can provide you with the model number when im back in the shop in the am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 I’ve heard great things about Pagids in se7ens. Stupid expensive, but as you noted, these cars are very easy on pads, so they will last a long time. I’m thinking about swapping out the Porterfield R4S pads currently in the Westfield for Pagid RS 4-2-1 Black or RS 4-2 Blue during upgrade season. -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanG Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Completely different car but I went from Porterfield to Pagids in the M100 and it transformed the car. Porterfield were better for auto-X after the first hard application but the Pagids are much better for most of my driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGTorque Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 the pads i was describing above are beck arnley silver supreme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slomove Posted September 4, 2009 Author Share Posted September 4, 2009 I’ve heard great things about Pagids in se7ens. Stupid expensive, ....... Yes, I noticed....the Pagid price really hurts, I believe north of $500 for a set of the blue ones?. Let's see what the Hawks are doing for me. That set was something like $140. I will take take note of the disc thickness and watch it a while if the wear is extreme. Gert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsimon Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Ferodo DS3000 Short warm up, great modulation control, fantastic disk life. Be forewarned, the squealing and night time fireworks do take some getting used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slomove Posted September 4, 2009 Author Share Posted September 4, 2009 Yes, I noticed....the Pagid price really hurts, I believe north of $500 for a set of the blue ones?. Let's see what the Hawks are doing for me. That set was something like $140. I will take take note of the disc thickness and watch it a while if the wear is extreme. Gert P.S.: I did not measure the disc thickness before but I estimate the old ECB Greenstuff pads did not much damage there either. Maybe they are not really made for highway use with a very light car and no power brake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Yes, I noticed....the Pagid price really hurts, I believe north of $500 for a set of the blue ones?. I just checked an old email from Pagid. At the end of 2007 they told me that a set for the Westfield would run around $350. That's to fit the Outlaw M16 front and Sierra rear calipers. -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slomove Posted September 6, 2009 Author Share Posted September 6, 2009 (edited) I did the embedding routine with the new Hawk HP-plus pads today and they grip much better. The required pedal pressure when cold is a fraction of what the ECB Greenstuff pads needed. That said, they do have a slight slurping, metallic grinding sound that I can hear when I take the ear plugs out. I would not really call it "noisy pads" or as bad as some race compounds but definitely a difference to the dead quiet ECB pads. But I guess there is some kind of friction/abrasion trade-off. Gert Edited September 22, 2009 by slomove Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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