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Kent engine-oil pump question


Kitcat

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It has been suggested that a quick/cheap way of remedying my chronically low oil pressures wld be to shim the pressure relief valve (so as to allow greater pressure build up).

 

My question is, therefore, where is the valve and how is it accessed? I see the oil pump hanging off the side of the engine, oil filter below, etc. But does anyone have a blow-up or schematic of how it all fits together and where the pressure valve & spring are and how they are accessed? Are there any tricks to it (hidden clips that have to be removed, etc.)?

 

I have the book:"Ford Kent Crossflow Engine", P & V Wallage. It shows the pump, but no details as to location of the relief valve.

 

Or, should I just buy the Dave Bean upgraded oil pump (for a mere $750.00), and be done w/it?

 

Thx.

 

Mike

Edited by Kitcat
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Mike - I think I would go for the High Pressure/High Capacity (part no. FP200a) option from Burton's first:

 

https://www.burtonpower.com/product_main.aspx?prodLanding.aspx?CCode=PC090

 

Another thought. Given the poor reliability/accuracy of the electrical sender, are you sure the pressure is really low? What if the gauge is not displaying the actual oil pressure, and is understating what it is?

 

Steve

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Mike,

 

Dave bean has a spring kit for $8. I know because I just ordered one this week. You can also shim the spring to get more pressure, but I'd rather pay $8 so I don't have to take it apart again if it's wrong. I figure I'll put it in if I ever decide to sell it - so the prospective buyer isn't concerned with the oil pressure.

 

The spring is accessed from the block side of the pump. If you buy bean's spring, they'll send you a catalog that has exploded views.

 

Keep in mind, there's nothing wrong with 5psi idle/ 25psi 3000 rpm. The crossflow likes good flow, not necessarily pressure. Formula Fords run these pressures all day (and the ones running the lower pressures make more power). Another thing to consider is more pressure may mean more oil leaks...

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As above, but more detail if you need:

pop the pump off the block (three bolts iirc);

on the face of the pump that was against the block you will see a small metal disc about 3/8" to 1/2" dia with a small hole in the center, pressed in to a recess in the pump face, the spring is under there;

DON'T STARE RIGHT AT THE DISC, IT'S SPRING LOADED!

pull the disc out slowly, ready to catch the spring;

put a shim on top of the spring, push down HARD, reinstall disc into recess;

 

... and if all goes as usual, hunt around for the spring, disc, and shim on the floor somewhere and keep trying :-)

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Thx all.

 

After calling Dave Bean, I learned the replacement pump was $80, not $750, so i ordered it. I will give it a try, if pressure doesn't move, BBall is right. If it does, and I start springing (more) leaks, Dingo is right.

 

The engine does make nice power and if it was a really big problem, it seems unlikely that I wld have logged 27K miles. Still it makes me nervous to see 28 lbs of pressure at 6500 RPM's, after all is nicely warmed up.

 

Mike

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Shimming the pressure relief spring (so that it is tighter) will only increase your oil pressure if the valve was actually bypassing oil at the time. Shimming doesn't increase oil pressure, it raises the point at which it opens and passes some of the oil back to the pan, bypassing the oil galleys all together.

 

Let's say you are running flat out at 5000 rpm's and your oil pressure is 65 psi. It might be 65 at 5000 because that is the result of the pump's ability to push oil and the mechanical's ability to leak it out, or it might be that the pump's ability to push the oil exceeds the mechanical's ability to leak it and the relief spring is opening up another "leak" back into the pan.

 

If you have low oil pressure at low rpm's it's not because of the pressure relief valve, which we should really call the OVER pressure relief valve, but because the pumps worn out or the mechanicals are and leak too much.

 

Tom

Edited by Off Road SHO
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Kitcat let me know how the new pump works for you. I run about 20-25 at idle and about 30 at 5600 redline on my 1300cc xflow. 6500 RPM!!!!! Man I have never taken mine past 5600. WOW!!!! Russ

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Shimming the pressure relief spring (so that it is tighter) will only increase your oil pressure if the valve was actually bypassing oil at the time. Shimming doesn't increase oil pressure, it raises the point at which it open and passes some of the oil back to the pan, bypassing the oil galleys all together.

Tom

 

Good point, but mine must be bypassing, as I appear to have "over-shimmed", and result is 90psi at idle, over 100 with tiniest throttle tap, so shims coming out obviously.

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Good point, but mine must be bypassing, as I appear to have "over-shimmed", and result is 90psi at idle, over 100 with tiniest throttle tap, so shims coming out obviously.

 

Ian, What do you have for an engine? I just can't imagine a car manufacturer making an oiling system where the pressure relief valve was always in bypass to some degree. I don't understand why they would do it. Anticipated wear of the rubbing parts?

 

Tom

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Ian, What do you have for an engine? I just can't imagine a car manufacturer making an oiling system where the pressure relief valve was always in bypass to some degree. I don't understand why they would do it. Anticipated wear of the rubbing parts?

 

Tom

 

If you only knew what it is like to own a crossflow...

 

My guess would be oil leaks. For some reason the kent just doesn't like to stay sealed...

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Ian, What do you have for an engine? I just can't imagine a car manufacturer making an oiling system where the pressure relief valve was always in bypass to some degree. I don't understand why they would do it. Anticipated wear of the rubbing parts?

 

Tom

 

Running a wet-sump Kent with a stock pump.

Faulty electric Caterham oilP guage scared me into shimming the pump, but substituting a Racetech mechanical gauge now reveals the 100+psi mentioned above.

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Go for it - the mechnical oil pressure gauge was one of the better improvements I invested on my car. Also easier than expected to install once I purchased the right bits and bobs.

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New pump = lower pressures, not higher(:. Next step-get an accurate measurement of actual oil pressure as BBall's theory is looking more plausible.

 

Kitkat, can you explain why a new pump would give you lower pressures and not higher?

 

Tom

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Tom-my mechanical "skills" are limited mostly to checking the dipstick to see if the engine has adequate oil (it does). The new pump was added by my trusty mechanic, who was baffled (no pun intended). So someone else will have to offer thots and theories on my oil pump conundrum.

 

I will have the actual pressure accurately measured next week and we'll go from there. Once all is resolved I will post an update here.

 

Mike

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With the mechanical gauge: cold idle 40, warmed up,on acceleration, 60, warm idle 25. And this w/the new oil pump that produces less, not more, pressure than the old unit that came w/the car.

 

So who makes a mechanical bolt in oil-pressure gauge for a Caterham?

 

Mike

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Mike - The Mocal gauge is often recommended, partially because it sort of looks like the Caterham gauges.

 

Gauge and fittings are available from British American Transfer (BAT).

 

http://www.batinc.net/mocal-central.htm

 

Hoping you'll keep track of all the fittings you'll need - and then let me know so I can do the same on my Xflow. :)

 

Steve

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