Croc Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Sorry to hear this Karl. There is nothing worse than trying to track through electrical gremlims. Am I correct in understanding it is the relay box providing grief or is it the ECU or even the wiring harness? Or is it just too early to know which one if giving problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubarisax Posted April 16, 2011 Author Share Posted April 16, 2011 We think the main issue is that the MBE ECU is not turning on the relay. So, we have no power to the coils, injectors and fan. When we wire the coils/injectors directly from the battery, the motor fires but very roughly like the timing was way off... Hopefully, we'll both have our cars on the road for the May 1st fish and chips run... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubarisax Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 Here is the latest status from my shop on the Cosworth electrical issues. I'm starting to worry! Any ideas? Maybe I have the wrong loom or ECU. Hi Karl, * Here is some more specific information regarding the problem we are having with your car: Although we have not remedied the power output to the injectors and coils, we ran our own power wires temporarily to test further. Today we started to run a complete output test starting with the injectors and coils. The test was as follows, inj. #1:good, inj. #2:ng, inj. #3:ng, inj. #4: ng. Then we moved on to the ign. tests and they were as follows. ign. #1:ng, ign. #2: good, ign. #3:ng, ign. #4:ng. As you can see the only outputs working properly are #1 injector and #2 coil. At this point I decided to run a test of all outputs in each corresponding connector. The test was as follows: ign. #1 output fires # 4 coil, ign. #2 fires #2 coil, ign. #3 fires # 1 coil and ign. #4 fires #3 coil. We have not gone to the injectors yet but as you can see it's apparent that that outputs are configured wrong so far at least on the ignition side. But, we did plug in the original computer and had the same problem, therefore could this wiring harness be wired wrong for this ECU as supplied? Is there precedent of this harness being used in other cars? * Thanks Ed Light Bert G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scannon Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 For the ignition, could it be as simple as changing the plug wires so the wrong coil fires the right spark plug? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubarisax Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 I wish it were that simple... and maybe it is, but my mechanic (who is very good) thinks it looks like the pin out connections to the ECU may be mixed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 (edited) Is there precedent of this harness being used in other cars? Yes. And not just me - Alaskossie also runs the Cosworth 2.3, MBE ECU, and YD8048 engine harness, I am pretty sure. If your mechanic has the schematic diagram of the engine harness, it should be easy for him (her?) to determine if that is mis-wired. Edited April 20, 2011 by Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsimon Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I think Skip's hit it on the nose, however since this engine uses COP ignition, it's the trigger wires to the coils that are probably swapped around. I would also suspect the wires to the injectors may be swapped as well. I believe the Cosworth MBE is set up for sequential injection, in which case the injection wiring needs to be in order. If it's running in batch mode, the injector wiring can be random. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubarisax Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 Thanks guys for the help, I think we might try putting the Caterham loom back in and see if that works... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 If the loom is the issue, it shouldn't be that hard to fix. Just use a pin remover tool to remove the wires from the plug at the ECU end and then put them in the correct holes. -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 This is B.S. :bs: You bought the engine, ECU, and wiring harness all from the same source. They are designed to work together, and have for other customers in the past. If they are not working together, the supplier needs to know about it, and should see to getting it corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubarisax Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 Sean, I agree and have been reaching out to Ken Anderson. So far, Cosworth is pointing to the main loom coming from the Caterham, but this makes no sense to me... I have not given up on getting this sorted out. Karl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubarisax Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 Sean, Don't panic, Cosworth is stepping up and sending a new loom. Kyong (who took over for Ken) told me their records showed you getting the 8111 generic loom. Karl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 (edited) Kyong (who took over for Ken) told me their records showed you getting the 8111 generic loom. Their records are partially correct - I did receive the YD8111 crate engine loom with my engine and ECU. The engine harness-to-vehicle harness connector on the YD8111 is a rectangular 8-pin connector that looks like this: http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn384/BBL-Sean/7%20Build%20Issues/IFcon-eng.jpg The corresponding connector on the vehicle harness is a square(-ish) 14-pin connector that looks like this: http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn384/BBL-Sean/7%20Build%20Issues/IFcon-veh.jpg Clearly this was not going to work at all. I later found out, on my own, through multiple e-mails with Cosworth U.K. over at least a couple of weeks, that Cosworth in the U.K. had the YD8048 engine harness as a standard item, but nobody in Torrance seemed to be aware it even existed. Once this was pointed out, Ken Anderson had a YD8048 sent from The Octagon right away, and I returned the YD8111 to Torrance. When the Caterham-specific and MBE-specific Cosworth YD8048 harness was installed between the Cosworth supplied engine and the Cosworth supplied MBE ECU, it all connected up, and fired up, with no additional issues. Ken is now a V.P., last I heard (and deserves it IMO), but Kyong might want to look into updating their records, at least on my file. Still, overall, Cosworth in Torrance worked with me to correct any issues I had and to make me a happy customer, and provided me with excellent customer service IMO. edit -- For reference, this harness troubleshooting took place between June and August of 2008. Edited April 21, 2011 by Sean added dates, for reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskossie Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I had similar loom problems with my 2.3 Cosworth Duratec, and Ken Anderson supplied the correct loom. The car fired up and was running fine. Last July I bought the engine-management CD and flashing kit (KK3559 ECU Flashing kit- CD Calibration Software, for $540.00) from Cosworth USA, but when Nathan Down in Boulder tried to install it, we got no signal at all. So it remains uninstalled. i told Kyong that Nathan thought perhaps the kit was faulty and I would send it back to be checked, but unfortunately I have not sent it back yet. My car is complicated because it was supplied from Caterham with a wiring loom for the Zetec, which has a bunch of wires and applications that do not match the Duratec. This was only discovered by Nathan after my car was 80 percent finished by me, so Nathan had to do a complicated work-around that I'm sure only he an a couple of others would have been able to figure out, in order to get the engine to work. This involved abandoning some wires in the loom, stringing yards of new new wires, and using some wires for different functions. So even if I find my flashing kit is faulty and get a new one, I'm not sure I can install it in a way that will make it function correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubarisax Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share Posted April 21, 2011 (edited) I got the EasyMap software from SBD (free download) http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Engine_Management_Systems/ECU/MBE_ECU&Software.htm and used the MBE USB/CAN Interface from Caterham http://www.caterhamparts.co.uk/product.php?id_product=2945 This setup is working and is how we can see the loom is bad... http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/blubarisax/IMG00096-20110420-1735.jpg http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/blubarisax/IMG00094-20110420-1734.jpg http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/blubarisax/IMG00093-20110420-1007.jpg Edited April 21, 2011 by blubarisax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubarisax Posted April 22, 2011 Author Share Posted April 22, 2011 (edited) So the plot thickens. We put the original Caterham loom (38L035A) back in the car and it fired right up. So, there must have been an issue with the Cosworth loom. They are getting in a replacement Cosworth loom to test. If it works, I'll put it in. The Cosworth looms are just beautiful compared to the Caterham looms and I'd like to have one if I can get it to work. Originally, I had ordered a new Caterham loom from Ben (at his recommendation) to put on the new motor when it was built. The new Caterham loom was sent directly from Ben to Cosworth. Cosworth told me none of the connectors fit on the Duratec (which I was convinced was impossible) so that is when I bought the Cosworth loom, not really knowing how nice it was. As it turns out, the loom that Caterham sent to Cosworth was not the right one. It was a 38L025A (Zetec) not a 38L035A (Duratec) loom... YIKES has this been an expensive goose chase or what!!! Anyway, my new Carbon Fiber cam cover arrived from Reverie last night and after I put on the Cosworth Power badge I was back in love with my car. Karl Edited April 22, 2011 by blubarisax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 The new wheels with the painted/enameled/whatever centers looks really nice with the rest of the car. Who makes those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubarisax Posted April 23, 2011 Author Share Posted April 23, 2011 'morning Croc, The wheels are Rial and I got them from Joachim Westermann at Mog-Racing.com. I had him powder coat the rims and paint the centers with Caterham Orange paint (he picked the paint up at Caterham himself, talk about good service) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskossie Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Blubarisax, Any photos of the engine with the Reverie c/f cam cover installed? You and I are the only two people I know of with that setup on a Duratec. I really like the look. Did you get the low-profile Reverie cover without the oil filler hole? I have had a persistent oil seep from the front-side mating surface of the cam cover. I plan to get a new formed gasket from Ford, and then put something (what? --any recommendations?) in the groove in the cam cover before inserting the gasket, to see if this stops it. Any other suggestions? The cam cover hold-down bolts are all very tight, but I need to measure to see if one or more is bottoming out in the holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubarisax Posted April 23, 2011 Author Share Posted April 23, 2011 I'll get you a photo Monday. I got the low profile dry sump cam cover with an oil filler cap, 19mm breather and coil on setup. Thanks for paving the way. I'm glad to have gotten the idea from your car. And, even more happy to have beaten Croc to the punch!!! I used a new ford gasket, cutting off the bolt tabs so it fit. My mechanic put some red grease in to help with sealing. I'll ask Burt what he used. He is a drag motor builder most of the time. The car has not really run yet (just 20 min) so no leaks so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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