beagley Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I'm planning a supercharged 2.0L duratec build and have just finished reading a GREAT book on supercharging. The author really stressed the importance of EFI and that got me thinking about the different aftermarket systems that are available now. What systems have You all foun to be good? Beagley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinnyG Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 My only experience has been MegaSquirt. The tuning of any system will be similar, but support/simplicity/documentation could be a factor for you. I'll do MegaSquirt on my next engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scannon Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 I built my Caterham with a Link ECU programmed and tuned for its Miata engine. It worked well but is no longer supported in the US. I changed to a Hydra Nemesis ECU and with no other changes gained 60 HP. The advantage of the aftermarket ECUs is the safety features built into them such as knock control, boost control as well as fueling and timing control and the ability to set your own red line fuel shut off. Once it is tuned your engine is much safer than with carbs. Most of them are sensitive to altitude changes and will adjust for it automatically, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxologist Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Hydra Nemesis is teh current top of teh line and AEM just released a new version. It really come down to who your tuner is or if u are doing it yourself. LINK, Megasquirt, Electromotive's TEC are all other sysytems. Hell, even an open source software may be enough for ur needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestTexasS2K Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Tuning is the key to longevity in a force induction car. If you are not versed in timing, fuel maps, ignition advance curves. Then find a tuner in your area and find out what systems he is familiar with that is comparable with your engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beagley Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 Thanks for the replys everyone. My "plan" is to take to a rolling road and have a shop set everything up, BUT I would like to know what is going on under the hood. I have a fairly good idea of timing and fuel maps etc, but I think its worth the few hundred bucks to have a pro get it "right" the first time. There are some local classes from EFI tuning that I am interested in attending. Here is a link to their site. http://www.calibratedsuccess.com I would be going to the one in Orlando if I go, anyone else interested as we may be able to set up a group rate? Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slngsht Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 WestTexasS2K gave some excellent advice... pick your reputable tuner first, then get his recommendation on what to go with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnK Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 One man's experience: I had over a year's experience tuning engines managed by an ECU: a few V8s and a few Zetecs, all in various states of modification. I used both Engine and load-bearing Chassis dynos. The experience caused me to jump at the opportunity to buy a Se7en that ran an engine whose output was satisfactorily high in stock form; i.e., I wouldn't have to touch the calibration. I'm certain that there are people out there who can calibrate an ECU well, but I am very skeptical that there are very many of them, AND what are the criteria can be used by the owner to evaluate their work. (One client I had had years experience building engines and racing them - and he was very surprised at how far off his tune was and how much the change in performance was when things were adjusted just so that everything was 'reasonable' with respect to ratio and spark.) The number of areas that one has to be knowledgeable in are considerable (electricity, electronics, digital hardware, analog hardware, software behaviour, application behaviour, ... ) above an beyond the question of "what is it that qualifies as a 'good tune' " There are people out there who would confirm that I could arrive at a 'good tune' for their engine, perhaps even a 'very good tune'. But, it is very time consuming, is very difficult, and consequently, very expensive to get it done well. The higher the output of the engine, the more difficult it is to get it right - to give 'good drivability' - and the easier it is to ruin an engine. Tread carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubarisax Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 If anyone out there has a recommendation for a good tuner in the NYC area I'd like to hear. My ECU is a MBE unit mapped by Cosworth. Karl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scannon Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 (edited) I agree with those above, finding the right person to tune the ECU is critical. My engine is tuned by Jeremy at Flyin Miata. He uses a Rototest load type dyno instead of an inertial dyno. He had a lot of experience with the Link system and when FM switched over to the Hydra they sent him to a school on the system. He does an excellent job of squeezing out the maximum safe HP for a given configuration. I've never had to have it retuned except when I made changes to the engine. Otherwise it is rock solid. A typical dyno tune runs me around $300. Edited March 29, 2011 by scannon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestTexasS2K Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I would expect 300-500.00 for a tuning session. If the tuner is very familiar with the software it tends to go faster and is cheaper. Often times they already have a base map to begin and it is just of matter of tweeking to peak performance. That is why I suggest finding the tuner close to you and finding what forms of ECU management he is used to working with. It just makes for alot less headaches and usually cheaper in the long run. I know 7evin spent a full day on the dyno tweaking Mojitio, but they had some issues getting vtec to engage which took time to trouble shoot and work around. He also had two fuel maps to do E85 and pump gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimrankin Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 You mentioned that setting up the Vtec was a problem for 7evin. One of the reasons I've been looking at aftermarket ECU's is to get the power band "smoother" across the whole RPM range. I'm running a stock 2.2L S2000 motor so I'm not going to gain much HP, if any, with the aftermarket ECU, just putting the curve back to something normal. If 7evin did an aftermarket ECU was it a choice for the Vtec tuning curve or is this some feature that Honda motors "need" for some reason I can't fathom? Old dog but always trying to learn new tricks. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestTexasS2K Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Jim if you want to just tween fuel curve and vtec engagement you don't need an ecu. You can do both of those with an Apexi tuner. It is a piggyback computer that is plug and play. It is great for NA applications. Expect 10-20 hp gain with tweaks. Lowering the vtec by 1000-1500 rpm works good in a lighter car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mondo Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Jim, I would go with the advise of those here regarding finding a good tuner. I'm sure there's one in the Bay Area. I had a lot of issues getting my stock ECU to work (tried the apexi) and finally got an AEM from Bisimoto Engineering. One of the top tuners in the LA area. http://www.bisimoto.net/ Had him dynotune the car as well. I'm really happy with the results and will probably do a turbo option when funds allow with him (there's more flexibility in tuning with a turbo compared to blower). He offers an AEM ECU with a custom tune for the S2000 already installed... would get you off to a good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusaNostra Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Call AEM, see if they sell a plug and play AEM EMS ecu for Duratec (like the one in HONDA S2000). They sell different plug and play ecu for many different brands. Unplug the stock ecu, plug the Aem ems off you go! Save the original stock configuration before you supercharge the car. It will be easy for the tuner to play the air fuel mixtures and other parameters. Make sure the injectors & pump can supply enough fuel during boost - before going to a dyno shop. Motec, electromotive & other standalone are nice product but expensive. Requires a lot of knowledge wiring, using what sensors, and time consuming dyno/mapping. What supercharger are you going to use? I like the compact Rotrex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestTexasS2K Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Mondo turbo will make more power and I would recommend it over a most supercharger systems, but the Rotex is a diffrent animal acts alot like a turbo without all the heat. Don't forget we have a bracket already for the S2K. That being said I am considering a turbo for my car. Just to do some testing and evaluating. Cost should be similar. Turbo overall power potential is greater for sure. My main concern is heat management. Our cars are so hot as it is More airflow thru the hood is going to be mandatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestTexasS2K Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Mondo turbo will make more power and I would recommend it over a most supercharger systems, but the Rotex is a diffrent animal acts alot like a turbo without all the heat. Don't forget we have a bracket already for the S2K. That being said I am considering a turbo for my car. Just to do some testing and evaluating. Cost should be similar. Turbo overall power potential is greater for sure. My main concern is heat management. Our cars are so hot as it is More airflow thru the hood is going to be mandatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusaNostra Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) Yeah turbo option delivers more power but heat is the zhyte. I used to have a hayabusa turbo in my clone 7 http://img202.imageshack.us/i/kristenn038.jpg/ , burnt and petrified some of my fiberglass panels and bundle wirings. I found out bike engine developed lots of heat with turbo option. Bad idea, hard to dissipate turbo heat in the 7. Edited March 31, 2011 by BusaNostra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mondo Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 The thing I liked about tuning with a turbo (and AEM) is you can dial in the power based on speed as well as rpm. I think that would be nice as you don't need all that power in 1st gear but more boost in higher gears/speed. I too am worried about heat as it gets hot here. But, in reality, it's going to be a while before funds materialize and I need to learn the car more before taking it up a step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimrankin Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 I was already prety set on the AEM unit and we have a tuner in San Jose (Dynospot) that RNR turned me on to last year. Had the car dynoed and it was right up to S2000 specs but I still hate the Vtec, reminds me of the old 2stroke 400's, bog like a bitch and then suddenly the front wheel was over your head. LOL. So much crap happening that my spare time has been eaten up so the car is still apart and summer is here so it may spend a while yet in the current tune. Also, my current ECU is a 2004 so there is a problem with some of the "piggyback" units that are unfortunately designed for later Hondas. Keep the thread alive as it probably will be a good source of ideas and experiences for future reference. Thanks and if I ever get time to get something done I'll post my thoughts and results. Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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