Turbos on a Seven

[Kitcat]

I noticed that the Texas Motor Works site has some detailed photos of the Superchager installed on their "Isotope" green Birkin ($54K, for a v lovely car).

[1turbofocus]

I am a turbo guy as you can tell by my name and well known in the Focus world (723HP 2000 Focus daily driver / 326 HP SVT Focus on the all stock engine)and use to be in the SVO Mustang world , I have turbocharged everything from a bar stool cart to a 572 Cu. In. Big block 55 Chevy

 

I love turbos , I dont agree that they over power a car , I do believe they can over power a driver and common sense has to be used and you would have to change your driving style other then that turbocharged cars make great track cars , I have run all my Foci at VIR and a few other tracks and love them

 

You hear you cant get through the apex , turbos take to long to spool (turbo lag) 15 years ago a lot of this had some merit , not today

 

Superchargers have no place in a 2.0l Zetec engine in my opinion there vampire sucking TQ eating monsters that leave you wanting vs a turbocharger

 

I dont care if its a 1000 LB car TQ is the name of the game and when you learn how to drive it and 90% of the people out there can a turbo on your 7 done right will be leaving you wanting nothing but more boost

 

Tom

[Klasik-69]

Tom, I agree with you that turbos are the best way of getting more power without resorting to getting a bigger engine. However, on the standard chassis S3 Caterham 7 with the Zetec engine and left hand drive, I don't think it can be done in a clean way. The limited room on the exhaust side of the engine, the fact that the steering shaft runs right through there and the fact that there isn't enough room in front of the radiator for an intercooler are all the reasons you can't do it with grace.

 

Yep, I've seen a car with the "external" look, the intercooler hanging off the side of the engine, an oil cooler on the other side just to balance off the messy look, exhaust plumbing that only Dr. Frankenstein could design, and a car that basically looks like it had a bad abortion in the last trimester.

[ayseven]

Although I admit that I'm not taking it off anytime soon, I don't think, I believe it is total overkill in my car, and adds unnecessary complexity to what should be a simple car. But the beauty of these things, is that you can do whatever your heart desires with them, even the Caterhams!

[1turbofocus]

Tom, I agree with you that turbos are the best way of getting more power without resorting to getting a bigger engine. However, on the standard chassis S3 Caterham 7 with the Zetec engine and left hand drive, I don't think it can be done in a clean way. The limited room on the exhaust side of the engine, the fact that the steering shaft runs right through there and the fact that there isn't enough room in front of the radiator for an intercooler are all the reasons you can't do it with grace.

 

Yep, I've seen a car with the "external" look, the intercooler hanging off the side of the engine, an oil cooler on the other side just to balance off the messy look, exhaust plumbing that only Dr. Frankenstein could design, and a car that basically looks like it had a bad abortion in the last trimester.

 

This may be the case in some you have seen , I make all my own piping , manifolds , intercoolers ,tuning etc , I made the turbo kits for the Focus and almost every Focus kit worth having has copied my design over the years , I wouldnt do it and put my name with it if it looked like crap

 

I think there is room for everything needed and to look factory , they now have turbos that do not need oil return lines so the turbos have more options as to where they can go , intercoolers are far more efficient so they dont need to be hugh any more

 

But thats my opinion lol

 

Tom

[westy turbo]

Pics and cars seen not properly done as far as setting it up in general,

doesnt mean that on a seven, wide/narrow cant be done properly.....

Its who and how good is on whats hes doin..

 

I can measure my rad/intercooler combo and see if its handy to try and

see if it fits your layout.i quess you have check what ex/in manifolds available.

 

Unless you any way go to the sc route....

 

totaly agree with 1turbofocus@

[Klasik-69]

This may be the case in some you have seen , I make all my own piping , manifolds , intercoolers ,tuning etc , I made the turbo kits for the Focus and almost every Focus kit worth having has copied my design over the years , I wouldnt do it and put my name with it if it looked like crap

 

I think there is room for everything needed and to look factory , they now have turbos that do not need oil return lines so the turbos have more options as to where they can go , intercoolers are far more efficient so they dont need to be hugh any more

 

But thats my opinion lol

 

Tom

 

Tom, I highly respect your opinion and your knowledge on these. If I weren't racing the car and could spare it being idle for a bit, I'd run it up to you to see what you could do. I may well end up doing that after this season. Higher horsepower has never scared me away. Please don't misunderstand me to say you can't do it, I'm just saying I have yet to see one done on an S3 that didn't look like a frankenstein creation.

[1turbofocus]

Its good I understood what you ment and agree , I have seen some real butcher jobs when it comes to adding turbos to things

 

Tom

[Klasik-69]

Pics and cars seen not properly done as far as setting it up in general,

doesnt mean that on a seven, wide/narrow cant be done properly.....

Its who and how good is on whats hes doin..

 

I can measure my rad/intercooler combo and see if its handy to try and

see if it fits your layout.i quess you have check what ex/in manifolds available.

 

Unless you any way go to the sc route....

 

totaly agree with 1turbofocus@

 

 

Tom is just outside of Charlotte, NC and we have a summer home in Murphy, NC so it's not that much of an issue to get it up there. And yes, I have seen other 7 variants with turbos and SC but most of these cars are a little different in the layout of the chassis/engine position. On the Caterham R300, there is very little room in front of the radiator, and at that, it is only on the upper 1/3 of the radiator due to the slant of the nose cone. I'm pretty sure that an intercooler would have to rest on the outside of the engine bay and be piped in. Here are a list of issues to overcome or deal with;

 

1) position/placement of the intercooler (either turbo or SC)

2) position of the turbo and its interference with the steering shaft on left hand steered cars

3) is the ECU capable of handling a turbo environment ?

4) is the radiator big enough to handle the extra heat developed by extra hp ?

5) is the powertrain able to handle the extra hp without reliability problems ?

6) will the gear ratios be adequate for road courses to allow the turbo to spool up so the power band is in line with the need ?

 

That is quite a bit to overcome but I don't think it's impossible. I do think it will be expensive. Is it cost effective ? Not sure, depends on how much one wants the extra hp.

[westy turbo]

Outside of course the chassis on the intercooler and the radiator,

am on LH drive and was tricky but made it..standalone ecu is the

best option,unless Tom can do something else,rad can be an issue

depends how high you going to shoot,preety sure you know the hp

that your box can take

 

I would built the engine to be bullet proof,use it with the less psi

you can(0.4bar) and from there you can upgrade more on the box

etc...or do it once....its up to you

[1turbofocus]

1) position/placement of the intercooler (either turbo or SC)

****I do agree this would be the biggest challenge , I like a challenge LOL

2) position of the turbo and its interference with the steering shaft on left hand steered cars

****Same as above

3) is the ECU capable of handling a turbo environment ?

**** Load vs RPM that's all a ECU cares about basically if it will tune your engine NA then there should be no issues tuning it with boost , change the MAF or MAP , Injectors and start tuning

4) is the radiator big enough to handle the extra heat developed by extra hp ?

****If your tune is right you should not have any issues with the added HP over heating the engine unless you shooting for over 400HP for extended times

5) is the powertrain able to handle the extra hp without reliability problems ?

That is a question I cannot answer yet , I would think they could take 300 to the wheels with no issues , I wouldnt go dumping the clutch but most guys I know with these cars have a good bit of common sense meaning not a lot of kids own them , more ??? seasoned lol

6) will the gear ratios be adequate for road courses to allow the turbo to spool up so the power band is in line with the need ?

**** Yes I wouldnt go changing the gearing

 

The stock Zetec will lay down 250HP to the wheels with boost all day long to go past that # you need to do a built short block

Eagle rods

Forged pistons

ARP head and main studs

 

That is quite a bit to overcome but I don't think it's impossible. I do think it will be expensive. Is it cost effective ? Not sure, depends on how much one wants the extra hp. __________________

**** It would be costly but adding a turbo to anything is costly , I cant see it being more the adding one to a Focus and tuning it .... Agree whats another 100-200+ to the wheels in TQ/HP worth ?????

 

Tom

[1turbofocus]

standalone ecu is the

best option,unless Tom can do something else,

 

I am all for the stock ECU , there faster , uses the stock knock sensor which you cant get on a standalone for less then about 4500-6000.00 , mass air etc , I dont like standalones most are archaic and 20 years behind on what they offer

 

Stock ECU and SCT where I can is what I like best , I can tune about any software tho , I have about 30 downloaded on my tuning laptop

 

Tom

[westy turbo]

Great news!,someone is lucky then

[DaveD]

This was a great thread to read. Many thanks to MichaelD for starting it. Now, all I need to do is find a way to come up with some bucks. I now know who to talk to to make it happen.:driving:

 

Thanks to everyone who participated.

 

Dave

2003 Zetec S1

[TurboWood]

Thread....must...not....die.....

 

Is there a transmission that bolts to the Duratec which can handle 300+hp reliably? It sounds like the T9 and Cat6 are both risky at those levels.

 

Daniel

[a.moore]

NC Miata 5 or 6 speed? People add turbos and superchargers to NA and NB Miatas all the time and the transmissions seem to do alright - its my understanding the NC 5 speed is identical internally. I'm sure pushing around a lighter car would also help some. The transmission definitely weighs enough so hopefully weight = strength!

[Croc]

Sadev sequential bolts straight on to a duratec in place of T9 and Cat6. Happily handles in excess of 300hp.

[Kitcat]

Suspect the Sadev is a bit more $, than a T9 tho?

[blubarisax]

Mike(s) you are correct. The Sadev will handle the power easily and it is much more than the T9, more than the Quaife sequential box too.

[TurboWood]

I assume the Sadev also has straight cut gear that sound like a screaming baby?