Another kit coming

[s2k7]

one Lotus elise is enough.

I like the rear light though....must be nice for the 7

 

http://www.boldride.com/ride/2014/zenos-e10#gallery/5

[Automoda]

I love that car.

 

The only thing is the price. I wish it was 25K They're talking about how affordable it is but honestly.... what are we talking here? 500 dollars per square foot of bodywork? Its not THAT affordable compared to a Birkin which is in the low 20s and is an equally amazing car.

[randychase]

But apples and oranges. The Zenos is made with a carbon fiber tub and an extruded aluminum spine and more... this is stuff normally found on more expensive cars. Not suggesting the car would not be more awesome if it was cheaper nor that the car will fit everyone's budget. But I think it is a little build and a different market.

 

Note, I am the importer... so I am totally biased.

 

p.s. It is a lot lighter than an Elise and you can't buy a new Elise in the USA in any case.

[s2k7]

....but for me, i think a lot of money, I could get an EXIGE or Evora or Esprit on that money.....hey, but its very nice - some people will buy it.

Edited May 9, 2014 by s2k7

[MightyMike]

Very nice!

[rnr]

I'm waiting for Randy to get his demo car

[Manshoon11]

Love it

[randychase]

....but for me, i think a lot of money, I could get an EXIGE or Evora or Esprit on that money.....hey, but its very nice - some people will buy it.

 

 

What is the price of a new Esprit in the USA? A new Exige?

 

Really, I agree that these can be compared and cross shopped, but a new car vs a used much older car is never a straight across comparison.

 

Love the Evora, but totally different car (3000 pounds), totally different market. I think the real straight across comparisons to the Zenos E10 are:

 

Lotus Elise/Exige (used)

Ariel Atom

KTM X-Bow

BAC Mono

 

The BAC, Atom and X-Bow are far more expensive. Most people will not cross shop the Mono as it is a single seater. For me that is a reason I would not own the BAC.

 

One can compare the E10 to a Caterham, but the new Caterham is still more expensive and though I love the Seven styling, it really will not appeal to the broader market, it is far more retro. Neither a good or bad judgement... but having sold the cars and owned them.. it is either what you want or not.

 

If I only had $25-35K to spend... I would buy a Lotus Elise or Exige. I did in fact. Then sold it.

 

If my budget was low to mid 40s... then the Zenos comes to play...and there is not enough money for the Ariel Atom or X-Bow. Now you may ask but why would anyone pay more for a Zenos than a used Lotus? The answers are:

 

1. It is a new car. Not everyone values that the same. But many people like having a brand new thing.

2. Better (IMO) drivetrain. I am not a fan of the 2ZZ engine in the Lotus. I think there is more potential with a new Ford Ecoboost.

3. Improved design for costs. The car was designed to be easily repairable and modular. I have a LOT of experience removing my clams on my Elise and Exige and doing repairs. It was not easy or cheap. The Zenos has separate corner panels which I think is cool. The front suspension is moved inboard for protection.

4. Fun being part of a new thing. A different thing.

5. Carbon Fiber crash tub. Like driving part of the McLaren P1 except at far less cost.

6. Simplicity. One reason I sold my first Elise was all the complicated parts I was not interested in. I wanted something more like my shifter kart. No electric windows, door locks, AC, etc.

 

In fairness... there are many reasons one would select the Lotus over the Zenos:

1. Dealer support. You may have a dealer near you and with more infrastructure than Zenos, you should be able to get parts and service easier.

2. You want doors, windows. Air conditioning. Radio. Alarm.

3. Federal car. No specialty car registration stuff. May be easier to insure.

4. Larger community.

 

So in the end... it is a value judgement of what matters to you. Which is awesome, if anyone should understand driving a different car and taking a different path.. you guys should! There are over 5000 Lotus Elise and Exige cars in the USA and that makes sense. IT IS AN AWESOME CAR! I know... I owned two of them. So Zenos is not trying to take over that market. We really are only planning on selling a small number of cars.

 

Myself... I am back to being excited about a new car. Can't wait to take it to Tail of the Dragon.

[toedrag]

I love that they are trying to do something new, and I appreciate the design efforts. But, I'm skeptical about its success, which makes me sad because it seems like an innovative car.

 

Looking at the Launch Edition pricing, for the buyers who need it to be US street legal & trackable, it looks like it easily gets into $50k (with 20% VAT removed and approx $2k added for shipping).

 

I dig the interior for street use - very clean - but for track use, the displays don't seem very track friendly. I'm not a naysayer of all digital dashes, mind you. It's just that the layout on the E10 seems a little off; the display behind the wheel seems a little small, and the larger one in the middle seems like it's too far out of the driver's periphery.

 

Is the tub/frame very serviceable? I personally haven't worked with carbon fiber, but I don't weld yet either (for the case of a traditional 7/locost). If/when I have frame damage on this or a 7/locost, I'd have to find someone to fix it. It seems like it's easier/cheaper to weld new steel tube vs finding someone willing to work on the CF frame of the E10, but I could be wrong?

 

In terms of driving, will it be fond of snap oversteer like the Elige/Atom? Or on the other hand, with the front anti-roll bar plus both front & rear wings, will it want to understeer? Or, have they achieved nirvana and made a truly balanced mid-engined car?

 

I'm surprised to see only a front anti-roll bar listed; hopefully, it's adjustable. If not, it would seem strange to have adjustable dampers as an option, but not have adjustable front/rear roll bars.

 

Taking all this into account, plus what I presume is limited parts availability and the inflated part pricing due to UK sourcing (unless there are standard components I can buy locally?), it's too much risk for me personally, and it seems like there are better values out there. Again, it pains me to reach this conclusion because I like the innovation, and I realize that there is a fair bit of room for wrong assumptions on my part with the above analysis. This is armchair quarterbacking at its finest, and I promise I'm not trying to be a stick in the mud.

[Kitcat]

Look forward to reading and seeing more abt this car. I find it very tempting.

[randychase]

toedrag, the pricing is all available on the USA site. Launch Editions are almost sold out, so one will be able to buy a non-Launch Edition for just under $40K. There are no costs to make the car street legal, it will be as legal as any other specialty component car. Again, not suggesting it will be cheap. Cheap is the not the goal here. Affordability is certainly subjective, but the goal is attainable and low cost of ownership.

 

http://www.zenoscarsusa.com/e10-prices-options/

 

There is no doubt that at early stages in development, one can and should have concerns and questions. I think for me, the difference in how I see it was that I went to UK and saw the car and the design and talked to Mark and Ansar. I feel confident that they know what they are doing and are going down the right path.

 

Keep in mind their background at Lotus and Caterham. This is not their first rodeo.

 

The car has been on track doing testing. They did wind tunnel testing last month. This is not just a cobbled together from some CAD drawings effort. I feel it is a proper niche car development.

 

Reworking a tub. Not sure why that should ever come into play. The beauty of a CF tub is the strength. If the tub is ever compromised, my guess is that car repair is not your major concern. The rest of the chassis is indeed designed for modularity and low cost of repair. The stated goal as I was told... we are designing the car to make an off on the track, a low cost fix. One reason I did not like tracking my Elise was the potential for major damage at low speed even (if you tweak the suspension pick up points, the car could be a write off...and replacing a clam is not cheap).

 

 

Anyway... let me remind everyone I am biased. But I am also patient and I think it will be seen what we really have in the car and how things like the usability of the displays really work out, once we are farther into development, and once we have cars here in the USA.

[randychase]

Modular-

[toedrag]

Thx, Randy. I understand things are in a wait & see mode. Thx for the add'l info.

 

There are no costs to make the car street legal, it will be as legal as any other specialty component car.

 

In TX, I was originally thinking the option for windscreen + wipers ($2.4k) was required. But, I double checked the requirements for TX registration, and wipers are only required if a windshield is present (windshield is not required in TX). Sorry for the confusion on my part.

[xcarguy]

Note, I am the importer...

 

randychase,

 

Three years ago a fellow I knew in the L.A. area sent me these photos. He told me he was going to be importing this car (car in photos) to the U.S. I don't know anything about the car except that it was based on the use of a Duratec engine. I've since lost touch with this fellow and don't know if his plan ever worked out. My question is; is the car in the photos related to the Zenos (forerunner)?

 

 

BTW, love the Zenos, but I'm all about shopping at NAPA when I can; that's the southern redneck in me speaking out.

 

 

:cheers:

Edited May 10, 2014 by xcarguy

[randychase]

There is no connection. The guys that started Zenos did not develop from the E10 from earlier cars, they developed the car based on their experience developing the Lotus Elise, and Caterhams. For those that might not know... Ansar was CEO of Caterham and Mark Edwards was an executive there also. Prior to Caterham, Ansar and Mark were executives at Lotus Cars.

 

So this puts them in a little different place than most cottage based English kit car companies. Not to put those companies down... not at all. But there are many people and companies with ideas that never really amount to much or even see the light of day. In defense of the one you mentioned, at least there is a physical car.

 

One key thing for me, was when meeting with Ansar... that he has a sensible plan, sensible pricing (he does not intend on makings thousands of cars and competing with Porsche), sensible schedule, and is 100% funded. That last item is crucial.

 

I think one funny point (seeing as I am in Tennessee) that my own southern redneck does not understand your point, as it is really just a matter of degree right? I mean... I guess someone that only wants to use bailing wire and duct tape might think this car is too high falutin...but when compared to rest of the car market, I feel a part of the appeal of the Zenos is that I can modify it and use parts from NAPA. It is after all a Ford drivetrain and very simple.

 

I mean this is still on the same (redneck) side of the ledger compared to buying a Porsche 911 or Evora or most any other car.

 

We have one person interested in building a small V6 version of the car. Another wants to make an electric version. All good....

Edited May 10, 2014 by randychase

[xcarguy]

Stating that I'm all about shopping at NAPA is simply another way if saying that every part of my car (basic kit included) was sourced from the lower 48 and ALL parts are easily accessible; no having to cross the pond for parts/spares, no concerns about service/support after the sale and definitely no concerns about parts availability. Personally, I don't find that to have anything to do with duct tape and bailing wire, so perhaps I'm missing your point. And when you say "compared to the rest of the market", to what 'rest of the market' are you referring? Afterall, you did say apples and oranges, right? Having said all that, I do like the Zenos and wish you well in the American market.

[Automoda]

Awesome! Thanks for posting the exploded-kit pictures. It really helps visualize what the car is made of.

 

You know, the way the body is broken into manageable segments, I think it would be an easy car to wrap rather than paint.

[randychase]

Stating that I'm all about shopping at NAPA is simply another way if saying that every part of my car (basic kit included) was sourced from the lower 48 and ALL parts are easily accessible; no having to cross the pond for parts/spares, no concerns about service/support after the sale and definitely no concerns about parts availability. Personally, I don't find that to have anything to do with duct tape and bailing wire, so perhaps I'm missing your point. And when you say "compared to the rest of the market", to what 'rest of the market' are you referring? Afterall, you did say apples and oranges, right? Having said all that, I do like the Zenos and wish you well in the American market.

 

Sorry I misunderstood, I was responding less to the NAPA and more to the southern redneck comment you made. As I said in my reply, I did not understand your comment, so thanks for clarifying.

 

My comment to the rest of the car market was a crude attempt to explain that if one took ALL CARS ONE COULD BUY (ie the rest of the market)... then cars like the Zenos and Caterhams are far from special parts-requiring cars, they are pretty simple with generic drivetrains. Most of the bits are easily sourced, but now understanding your point... yes, if one buys a British car of any kind... you may not be able to get every part at NAPA. Part of the charm.

Edited May 10, 2014 by randychase

[randychase]

Awesome! Thanks for posting the exploded-kit pictures. It really helps visualize what the car is made of.

 

You know, the way the body is broken into manageable segments, I think it would be an easy car to wrap rather than paint.

 

 

That was my conclusion also and I have a guy waiting to do the first one. As far as wrapping, it looks like a relatively easy job.