xcarguy Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 subtle, You'll end up being very happy with the 3.23 gearing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyMike Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Great info on this thread guys! A set of drag radials would certainly help, but I plan to save my nickels and dimes to purchase a nice set of wheels and tires for the track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcarguy Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Regardless of what you chose, tire spin will always be a big problem. You will have to chose between long or really long burn outs. I have 3.42:1 FWIW. Mike, When my car had the SC V6, it had 3.45 gears. Once the LS6 went in, the 3.45 gears were replaced with 3.23 gears not long after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subtlez28 Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Thanks X, I hope you are right. Honestly though guys, I think this is over-thinking it a bit. The reality is with the light weight of these cars, with a powerful LS engine, small gear ratio changes won't mean much. I think the best way to look at gear choice is top speed in a particular gear. Basically if you can save yourself a shift on your favorite track, you are getting the most out of it. Since traction is already a limiting factor, eliminating the split second when power is not applied (shifting - clutch disengaged) will return the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subtlez28 Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 What tire size are you going to run with the 3.23's? Are you using the same transmission as me? Edit: I see from your build that your using a different trans, so our ratios will be a lot different (aside from the diff ratio). I'll be running 23" tires on the track (road race slicks) and 25.5" tires on the street. I may play with size a bit. Thats why I ponied up for the GPS speedo. Well, that and all the cool toys on it like 0-60, 1/4 mile timer etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyMike Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 GPS speedos are pretty cool - I like how they can capture peak performance. Imagine what it would be like to take a photo at this speed... http://i62.tinypic.com/1z1ac2f.jpg ...back to the thread on traction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toedrag Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Jevs, someday, we should meet up and swap cars. Since I went with Scott's recommendation of the T-56 close ratio w/3.73, it'd be fun to do some back to back driving of each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcarguy Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Thanks X, I hope you are right. Honestly though guys, I think this is over-thinking it a bit. The reality is with the light weight of these cars, with a powerful LS engine, small gear ratio changes won't mean much. I think the best way to look at gear choice is top speed in a particular gear. Basically if you can save yourself a shift on your favorite track, you are getting the most out of it. Since traction is already a limiting factor, eliminating the split second when power is not applied (shifting - clutch disengaged) will return the most. I'll be running 23" tires on the track (road race slicks) and 25.5" tires on the street. I may play with size a bit. Thats why I ponied up for the GPS speedo. Well, that and all the cool toys on it like 0-60, 1/4 mile timer etc. subtle, You're right; any of these cars fitted with an LS engine is a challenge when it comes to transferring power to the ground. This was the main reason the 3.45 gears came out my car and the 3.23 gears went in; power is useless if you can’t use it (speaking for myself here). While the difference in first gear is moot (still, no traction to speak of) the difference on the open road, and the track, is very noticeable. You nailed it down when you said, "Basically if you can save yourself a shift on your favorite track, you are getting the most out of it." I've ran four different tire sizes on track over the course of the last year and a half, and there is a very noticeable difference regarding when and where you need to shift and also in how much speed you can carry on a straight with one tire vs. another. If you run two different tire sizes back-to-back during the same event, the difference is simply eye-opening. FWIW, when I did the head/cam mods to the LS6, I started playing with various tire sizes (the 15” Avon slicks vs. the 16” Avon slicks) and different gear ratios (3.45 vs. 3.23) using a performance calculator app (Bench Racer) and what the numbers revealed was nothing short of amazing (at least, it was for me). I used 1/8, 1/4, 1/2 and 1 mile criteria. My car, when compared to itself but with different sized tires and different gearing, actually ran ‘mathematically’ quicker in certain areas (because of the power-to-weight) with the larger diameter tires and ‘numerically’ lower gearing. Here are a few snap shots for the sake of quick comparison. The most noticeable differences are in the comparison between the 15” tires with 3.45 gearing vs. the 16” tires with 3.23 gearing (chart labeled 15” 3.45 16” 3.23): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowss7 Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Zero to 100 in 5.0 seconds:svengo::svengo::svengo::svengo: Shane, we are definitely pulling at LEAST 2 spark plug wires when you come up for next year's gathering. And I though Karl's old car/my new one, was quick. WOW, just WOW! Oh, thought you should know that when we tell the NJMP member you were doing 1:09 second laps on Lightning your first time on the track, they all go pale. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOTTTCAR Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I put a 3.23 in mine and it is perfect for me. I will do the same in the XL. With r88s and 4 inches of travel on the peddle, wheel spin is easy to control. It's very close to the ZO6.....just a lot more acceleration in every gear. I have a tko600 which is way too slow to shift, but for the street its fine. The first time I speed shifted my TKO 600 at 7000rpm I thought I had destroyed it, but instead of missing the gear it just didn’t go into gear. At high rpm it takes so long for the synchronizers to line the dogs up that you have to be patient. You have to apply force to the shifter and be patient until it goes in gear. This is to slow for racing. Tko makes a faster one. They do it by getting rid of the brass cone clutches, widening the slots for the dog teeth so they will engage faster. By doing this you get what is called a Dog Box or Crash box, which shifts very fast but when the dogs engage it is not syncro-smooth…..clunk. I will use aT56 Magnum on the XL. Gale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S1Steve Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Zero to 100 in 5.0 seconds:svengo::svengo::svengo::svengo: Shane, we are definitely pulling at LEAST 2 spark plug wires when you come up for next year's gathering. And I though Karl's old car/my new one, was quick. WOW, just WOW! Oh, thought you should know that when we tell the NJMP member you were doing 1:09 second laps on Lightning your first time on the track, they all go pale. Tom Hi Shane, If Tom's going to limit your HP next year, can I borrow your excess.... I still laugh a month later at your 7 passing me at full chat before turn one.... And yes I was behind Croc at turn one when you went all John Deere on us.... I had my surgery this past Monday, so I'll be in better shape and won't be hurting like I was over July 4th.... Cheeers, Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcarguy Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 . . . . . I have a tko600 which is way too slow to shift, but for the street its fine.[F ONT=Calibri]The first time I speed shifted my TKO 600 at 7000rpm I thought I had destroyed it, but instead of missing the gear it just didn’t go into gear. At high rpm it takes so long for the synchronizers to line the dogs up that you have to be patient. You have to apply force to the shifter and be patient until it goes in gear. This is to slow for racing.[/font] This is exactly the reason I had Liberty Gears build me a TKO600 with face plated 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears as well as add a few other internal mods . . . completely different anumal from a stock TKO600 with zero shift issues during high (above 6000 rpm) rpm shifts . If you are usign your car primarily for the street, then the six speed makes the most since. For primary track use, the 'modified' TKO600 is a very good lighter, smaller choice. But heeds Gale's advise; a 'stock' TKO600 isn't the best track-worthy choice for a tranny . . . it definitely needs the mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcarguy Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Zero to 100 in 5.0 seconds:svengo::svengo: Shane, we are definitely pulling at LEAST 2 spark plug wires when you come up for next year's gathering. And I though Karl's old car/my new one, was quick. WOW, just WOW! Oh, thought you should know that when we tell the NJMP member you were doing 1:09 second laps on Lightning your first time on the track, they all go pale. Tom Tom, Those are 'perfect world' numbers; no tire spin, .5 sec shifts, no drag increase with speed and Joe Cool :cooldude: driving the car . . . . . . How about just one plug wire next year? :jester: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcarguy Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Hi Shane, If Tom's going to limit your HP next year, can I borrow your excess.... I still laugh a month later at your 7 passing me at full chat before turn one.... And yes I was behind Croc at turn one when you went all John Deere on us.... I had my surgery this past Monday, so I'll be in better shape and won't be hurting like I was over July 4th.... Cheeers, Steve Steve, Glad to hear all went well with your surgery! I won't lie, grabbing that John Deere award came with a huge trade off; I think I sucked a big portion of my seat cover up my . . . .well, you know . . . . before I got the car back on track. :smilielol5: As for HP, I'm currently working on a molecular HP tranfer devise, using transfer pods similar to those employed by Jeff Goldblum in The Fly :puke:. But in this case, we stick both our cars in one pod, puch the BIG RED button and see what comes out the other side. However, earlier test results using The Stig and a large grasshopper revealed that further tweaking is needed . . . . . :bs: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subtlez28 Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Tom, Those are 'perfect world' numbers; no tire spin, .5 sec shifts, no drag increase with speed and Joe Cool :cooldude: driving the car . . . . . . How about just one plug wire next year? :jester: X Cool to look at the perf calculator! It looks to me like the differences in the mile come from increased top speed ceiling. Either way the numbers are impressive. Have you been able to muster a 1.3 60' time?! With my last quick car, my Z28, I could not get under a 2.0 60", which killed my et (only a 13.1) despite mph of 110. This should have been a low 12 sec car (stock LS1 in a 3,400 pound car), but I'm told every tenth you can cut in the 60' is worth .2 at the end. My road race set up didn't make for a good 60'. My concern is the Stalker will have a similar issue in the 60'. My point is, I have no idea what to expect in the real world because of traction, or lack there of. I may have it even worse with a independent rear car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcarguy Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) subtle, I've never even attempted to acheive a 1.3 60'. As you know, these cars, simply put, just aren't set up for the strip. Rear end geometry would need some tweaking, drag shocks and softer springs would be a must and, of course, drag radials. In all honesty, I've never mashed the go pedal all the way in first gear. A second gear launch is challenging enough as it is. :ack: Edited August 16, 2014 by xcarguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcarguy Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Here's my quickest time... http://i57.tinypic.com/2yzcyab.jpg I think this was my second run. Mike, I can't remember if this came up one of our earlier discussions, but when you took the gorgeous green beast to the drag strip, what gear were you using off the line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcarguy Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I wanted to add to subtle’s comment regarding a good 60' time. When I was a kid in high school, I used to head off the drags nearly every weekend with a buddy of mine whose dad drag raced. We kids were the pit crew, and I have to say that helping out with that car was a huge learning experience, especially when I got to help stage the car (burn out and lineup). At the time, his dad ran a ‘74 Vega with a 327 cid SBC backed by a Lenco transmission, with which he was very competitive and very consistent. This was in the late 70's and on one occasion, I remember him running a 4.90 in the eighth. The reason I remember that time specifically is that on that same night, a jet powered car came in for an exhibition run; the jet car also turned a 4.90. That’s all gee wiz, but getting back to the 60’ time, the majority of drag races are won at the starting line, and a good 60’ time will absolutely (literally) cut tenths off of your E.T. This gets us back to the issue of Storkers :jester: being 'tractionally' challenged (add that to Webster's) at the starting line. As we know, these cars, while not set up for it, can be drag raced. John Meyer turned a sub ten second run with his at 140 plus. And I do indeed look forward to hearing back from MightyMike again once he slaps a set of drag radials on his beautiful car and finds the sweet spot with the go pedal off the starting line; he'll end up shaving an easy two seconds off his time. Having said that, imagine how well these cars would run down the strip if they were truly set up for such a task. :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyMike Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Shane, 2nd gear. I never use 1st - too much powah! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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