xcarguy

I suppose they could have called it Zanus. :jester:

http://www.redlinecomponents.co.uk/ Another possible source (used them when I had my Birkin) http://www.raceline.co.uk/index.asp

:iagree: I've also built/rebuilt a few cars and I have NEVER been able to build a GOOD car within a company's advertised build budget. :iagree: Yep, fun cars. And it doesn't matter what's under the hood. :ack: Say it ain't so, Joe! Say it ain't so! JeffersonRaley, thanks again for compiling the chart. Suggestion: there is also another thread in General Discussion (Build vs. buy debate). That would be an excellent thread in which to also post your chart. To date, this thread has 631 views while Build vs. buy debate has 1,414 . . . both threads were started within two days of each other.

Twerd68, If you have the link to the video, please post it. Thanks.

Nice fab job, Jim . . . . shame about the bird, though. :smilielol5:

Bob, Can you post a photo of each? Thanks.

I feel your pain. :iagree:

JeffersonRaley, I’m providing the additional/supporting information here so all can see exactly from where I derived my conclusions. Regarding the information below pertaining to parasitic loss, others (much more knowledgeable than I) may choose to disagree with, or challenge, the parasitic loss value (as well as parasitic loss origin) I chose to use as this is very much a debatable topic. However, it should put us in the ballpark with my car. The empty weight of my car (per corner weighting) is approximately 1650 lb. (no driver, fuel or aero). With driver, fuel and aero added, track weight (again, per corner weighting) comes in right at 1900 lb. Current RWHP is 425 (chassis dyno measurement; 500 crank HP estimated). Power-to-weight values are listed at the end of this post. The 425RWHP number was achieved using a Comp Cams cam (custom grind), TEA Stage II heads (factory heads, modified), ported throttle body, 42 lb injectors and supporting modifications such as LS7 lifters, hardened push rods, headers, cold air intake, a conservative (street) speed density tune and all nonessential ancillaries removed. Prior to the aforementioned modifications, RWHP was measured at 370 (chassis dyno measurement). This number was achieved using a stock LS6 (all nonessential ancillaries removed), headers, a cold air intake and conservative (street) speed density tune. My personal observation has been that parasitic loss for an internal combustion engine (automotive application) can range anywhere from 12% to 21% (my observed/derived values per written articles, discussions, dyno sessions, etc.). It has also been debated as from where, or how exactly, parasitic loss is measured. Take my car for example; assuming a 15% parasitic loss value, if the 425RWHP (chassis dyno measurment) were to be viewed as being 85% of the power that was originally available at the crank, then my engine would be rated a 500 crank HP: • 500 x .85 = 425 or 425 + 75 (15% of 500) = 500 crank HP However, if the 425RWHP were viewed as being 85% of the total power available (15% more available at the crank than that measured at the wheels) then: • 425 + 63.75 (15% of 425) = 488.75 crank HP My personal view is that measured RWHP is a result of what was not lost (HP wise) between the crank and the wheels (as originally measured at the crank), thus, 425 being 85% of what was originally available at the crank. Therefore: • 425 / .85 = 500 crank HP Personally, I prefer using the 15% parasitic loss value as it tends to be just a bit more conservative than an interpolated value of 16.5% (interpolated from 12% to 21% values). So, once again, assuming a 15% parasitic loss between the crank and the rear wheels: • (Stock LS6) 370RWHP / .85 = 435 crank HP (rounded value) • (LS6 with modifications) 425RWHP / .85 = 500 crank HP (exact value) Power to weight values: • Stock LS6 and empty weight of 1650 lb: 1650 / 435 = 3.8 lb/crank HP (rounded value) • Stock LS6 and track weight of 1900 lb: 1900 / 435 = 4.4 lb/crank HP (rounded value) • Modified LS6 and empty weight of 1650 lb: 1650 / 500 = 3.3 lb/crank HP (exact value) • Modified LS6 and track weight of 1900 lb: 1900 / 500 = 3.8 lb/crank HP (exact value) As for cost, Scott Mineheart will build you a new Stalker with pricing and options reflected in the following list: • Low Mileage Naturally Aspirated 3.8 V6 with rebuilt T5 transmission. 200hp, 200lbft at wheels – $36,990 • Low Mileage L32 supercharged 3.8 V6 with rebuilt T5 transmission. 260hp, 300lbft at wheels – $37,490 • New crate LS1 5.7 V8 with T56 magnum 6 speed transmission 350hp, 350lbft – $44,990 • New crate LS3 6.2 V8 with T56 magnum 6 speed transmission. 430hp, 424lbft – $44,990 • New crate LS3 6.2 V8 Hot Cam with T56 magnum 6 speed transmission. 480hp, 475lbft – $45,390 • New crate LS3 6.2 V8 ASA Cam with T56 magnum 6 speed transmission. 525hp, 490lbft – $46,390 Options • Full roll cage – T-Bar or Halo style +$425 • Aluminum Shock upgrade +$200 • Electric in column power steering +$1099 • Fiberglass top (m-spec cage/windshield only) +$900 • Canvas top +$1200 • 6l80E Automatic 6 speed transmission (LS V8 only) +$1600 • ISIS electrical system with Tablet/phone interface +$2000 • Race Logic variable traction control +$2400 • Windshield wipers +$700 • A/C and Heat (XL only) +$2500 Obviously, an owner-built car will be cheaper than a factory-built version, and buying used will be cheaper still. :svengo:

For the sake of comparison, the power, weight and performance of the 818 might need to be revisited. I’m assuming the HP numbers for the cars in the chart (excellent chart, BTW) are flywheel HP, not RWHP. If so, parasitic loss will have to be taken into account for the HP number of the two 818’s in the following videos. I’ve seen parasitic loss numbers of anywhere from 12% to 21%; 15% may be a fair ‘ballpark’ number. I’m also assuming the weights of the cars are dry/curb weights (no driver/no fuel or no drive/with fuel). In all fairness to the total weight given for the 818 in the video below, there is no mention of what was included in the corner weighting of the car (and, unfortunately, there is only a brief shot of the weights). Based on the FF advertised weight of 1800 lb vs. the recorded weight displayed in the video, one might assume that driver and fuel weights were added. As for how an Atom or an X-Bow compares, performance wise, to the 818, I can’t say as I have never driven any of these cars nor do I have any real firsthand knowledge of these cars other than what I've read or seen in videos; the closest I've come is seeing two Atoms up close and personal, and both of these cars were sitting in garages. As for how the 818 looks in comparison . . . . Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.:drool::puke: If you would care to add the Brunton Stalker (V8 version) to the chart, I can provide the specs for my car. My car, being LS6 powered, would represent middle-of-the-road numbers regarding V8 powered Stalkers as most of the V8 cars are powered by an LS3. 818 dyno at 4:40 and 818 corner weight numbers at 5:23 Also, the builder of the 818 seems to be a locost 7 enthusiast. Anybody know him? 818 dyno at :30 (this is the GRM 818 build) 818 at Watkins glen

I like it. If you make it work, I'm gonna copy you.

JW Speaker?

Well said, bigdog, well said. :cheers:

bigdog, Just poking fun at you. However, I have to admit that driving the 'ring' is still on my bucket list. I want to! I want to! I want to! :drool: And I, for one, am not going to shoot any flames your way; you have an opinion, are entitled to it, and I respect that. Okay, back to the thread. I reiterate, buy and drive. :jester:

No room for error. You just about need a co-driver reading off pacenotes. Joachim, I see you joined in 09 but have no previous posts. If I missed it somehow, welcome aboard. :seeya:

Croc, Being a corporate pilot, more times than not it's usually spur-of-the-moment notice for me, but I'll be sure and let you know next time I'm headed that way. Would certainly enjoy getting together for a visit.

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but if I had to be plucked off of a polar icecap because my ICEBREAKER ship got stuck in the ice, I might seriously revisit my views on global warming. Now where did I sit my coffee? :rofl: BTW, I just saw a dog chasing a cat, and it's so cold outside that they were both huddled together.

It's funny you mention that. I was actually looking last week on Google Maps to see just how far I would have to travel to come up there for a track day; only 1,322 mi from El Dorado, AR. You guys do look like you have a lot of fun together and NJMP looks to be a fantastic track for Sevens. I do occasionally fly into Teterboro. If the cards are ever aligned and I'm up there during an opportune weekend, I'd love to drive down and, at the very least, hang out with you guys.

"Bloody hell" The ring again? Sorry, bigdog, just couldn't resist. :jester:

Just watched the video all the way through. Your honking your horn at the Superlight (Tom and Jack) in the Chicane is hilarious! :smilielol5::cheers:

I'm not worthy! I'm not worthy! :cheers: Okay, I'm putting in a request for 'bowing/worshiping' emoticons solely for replying to Croc's posts. :smilielol5:

I've had an off-track trek. Took a quick tour of the grassy knoll coming into Horseshoe (that's 'Texas talk' for turn 14 at MSR Cresson). Didn't break anything except my pride . . . . but that was already in a severe state of disarray to begin with. :driving: . . . . . . . . . . :banghead: About 4:50 on the video:

Definitely worth a look. Just sent you a PM. :seeya:

Man! And just when this global warming thing had me spooked. . . . . . Thanks, guys, for giving me peace if mind.

And he lives there on purpose? :ack:

Okay, guys (and gals), I'm looking to have a set of bespoke (what a great word) track-use-only wheels built for my Stalker. The brands I'm considering are Bogart, Keizer and Kodiak. I'd appreciate any input (pros, cons, etc.) regarding these brands as well as any other recommendations with respect to other brands I might/should consider. Thanks in advance.