Which one is which?

[Chris Webb]

Hi, new to the forum as a result of being stricken with a NEED to own one of these cars. I've spent years driving various sports cars, always scheming on how I could further distill each car to it's most elemental form, meaning less stuff between me and the experience of driving the car. Then I realized that the Lotus 7 design is exactly that.

 

So I've spent the past few days obsessing on this car which has led to a bit of confusion that I was hoping to get clarity on here. When considering modern variants of the Lotus 7 here in North America I keep running across three...Caterham USA, Super 7 Cars, which seems to be Caterham Canada and Birkin. I'm sure there are others but these seems to more common, though common is a word that doesn't quite feel right describing any aspect of these cars.

 

So from what I gather Super 7 Cars is licensed by Caterham so are they the same Caterham cars as Caterham U.S. minus the engine and transmission? I see that Super 7 offers the Hyabusa engine option as well as a Cosworth Duratec option while Caterham U.S. offers modified Duratecs. So does this mean that the "Caterham' part of the car is pretty much everything minus the engine and transmission? Apologies if I'm getting this wrong but if correct then the Cnadaian and U.S. rollers are essentially the same Caterham car.

 

Then there's the Birkin variant which seems to be it's own company creating it's own version of the Lotus 7 design that has nothing to do directly with Caterham correct?

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Chris Webb

[wemtd]

Chris

Grab a bottle of wine and spend the evening reading through forum archives. This will give you a better, more eloquent education than i can type here.

Essentially there are originals like "Bessie" and everything else is a modern variant of that original inspiration. All makes of seven are great: regardless of whether you have a scratch built locost that sheds fenders, or a storker that sheds the earth we all love our cars.

They aren't for everyone though. So look around, ask lots of questions, sit in a few as proper fit is key. If you're still interested come to the annual gathering of sevens in July.

p.

[coffee break]

Chris,

You have found a good place to ask question about being a 7 head. Let us know where you are located and I'm sure you will find some cars to look at in person.

You are very correct. Driving a 7 strips away anything that is unnecessary and it is all sensory overload in the best way.

Go for it!

Carl

[Chris Webb]

Thanks wemtd and Coffee Break.

 

I'm in Santa Monica and sometimes head up to the coffe and car's at the la Canada movie theater parking lot.

[Croc]

Welcome to the forum Chris! :seeya:

 

Grab a bottle of wine and spend the evening reading through forum archives. This will give you a better, more eloquent education than i can type here.

 

Sensible idea but let me structure a list for searching otherwise you will need a second bottle...not that there is anything wrong with that...

 

Original

Lotus 7

 

Original/Original Looking Replicas/Traditional

Caterham (continued the UK Lotus 7 lineage after it passed out of Lotus hands)

Birkin (similar story to Caterham but did it via South Africa)

Some Locost sevens

 

Modified Traditional Look

Westfield

 

Modern Seven Look

Brunton Stalker

WMC Ultralite (Not sure these are still available new but worth looking at to decide your preference)

 

 

 

Some of the above have narrow or wide chassis options (SV, XS, XL, etc) depending on your belt size or use (e.g. track versus road touring versus canyon carver)

 

Once you decide the look then you need to decide drivetrain. Each of these some options for engines and transmissions ranging from 4 cylinders all the way to V8s.

 

After that it becomes all about the various options that personalize the car to you.

 

You're in the US so try to stick with the US sellers to avoid the whole importation hassles unless you decide desperately that you need a Hayabusa powered Caterham which only Super 7 cars seems to have in kit form (forget about importing a whole new car to the US unless you want to Federalize it...not a good idea).

 

All of the above are accomplished cars at what they do but they all require a level of patience/fiddling/fettling to bring them to your idea of a perfect Seven.

 

 

 

...there are originals like "Bessie" ....

 

Urk! Paul - I would not have done that to Chris. He may be scared away(or just scarred) by that series of posts that were the result of more than a bottle of wine by someone unknown...:leaving:

[wemtd]

Fair enough Mike... I was referring to the beautifully restored car with the right provenance for a certain state.

Chris: ignore the silliness in Bessie's thread. I get the impression CA is better than it used to be, and unbelievably better than some other states. However it may be worth considering a used car already registered in your state to avoid regulatory frustrations (the recent discussion re: east coast inspection).

 

cheers

p.

[Chris Webb]

Thanks Croc!

 

This is super helpful info and also confirms what I'm starting to learn by searching the Googlesphere.

 

I love the Caterhams but from what I've seen, beyond my budget.

 

Birkins seem great. I saw the one that recently sold here.

 

The Westfields seem very economical if the stateside dealer carries kits at similar prices.

 

Definitely a fan of the proportions of the Lotus 7 III's...classic with just the right amount of curve in the snout. But that's just me.

 

Probably would stick with a 4 cyl...Hyabusa looks awesome but may not be the most economical. ��

 

V8...heck why not? I wonder how well a car this light manages the HP and Torque? Regardless of stroke I would imagine gearing is critical with this engine configuration.

 

I'm sure the answers to my questions are all a forum search away.

 

Oh the hook is set...

 

Thanks again!

Edited October 27, 2016 by Chris Webb

[NVP66S]

Thanks Croc!

 

 

 

The Westfields seem very economical if the stateside dealer carries kits at similar prices.

��

 

 

 

Thanks again!

Westfield kits are imported to the US by Manik http://www.manikllc.com/ , and you go through them for a kit. Except, if you choose the Miata drivetrain version, you deal through Flyin' Miata who do the builder support on this version. They have a price and option configurator here:

 

https://www.flyinmiata.com/westfield/configurator.php

 

There is a Hayabusa version as well as one based on the S2000.

Dan

[Chris Webb]

Thanks, that's a great point regarding a used 7, especially here in Southern California which is essentially a rolling car museum.

 

 

Fair enough Mike... I was referring to the beautifully restored car with the right provenance for a certain state.

Chris: ignore the silliness in Bessie's thread. I get the impression CA is better than it used to be, and unbelievably better than some other states. However it may be worth considering a used car already registered in your state to avoid regulatory frustrations (the recent discussion re: east coast inspection).

 

cheers

p.

[Chris Webb]

NVP66S,

Thanks for this info! Funny I was just reading up on the Manik. I clicked on a link for flyin' miata that took me to a crazy Japanese fashion site...with no 7's...

 

Westfield kits are imported to the US by Manik http://www.manikllc.com/ , and you go through them for a kit. Except, if you choose the Miata drivetrain version, you deal through Flyin' Miata who do the builder support on this version. They have a price and option configurator here:

 

https://www.flyinmiata.com/westfield/configurator.php

 

There is a Hayabusa version as well as one based on the S2000.

Dan

[rzempel]

If you haven't already, pop over to the California Caterham Club forum and say 'hi.' There are a couple dozen Se7ens in the LA area, and many get together semi-regularly for blats. Most owners would be happy to give you a ride and talk about their cars.

 

Randall

[Driven]

Is there a photo gallery of all the variants?

[Chris Webb]

Thanks for the heads-up on the California Caterham Club. I joined that forum before joining here but for some reason I cannot post or reply to a post. I emailed the admin about this but so far, crickets...hopefully they give me permission to post at some point.

 

 

If you haven't already, pop over to the California Caterham Club forum and say 'hi.' There are a couple dozen Se7ens in the LA area, and many get together semi-regularly for blats. Most owners would be happy to give you a ride and talk about their cars.

 

Randall

[Kitcat]

For a photo comparison of the various 7 iterations look in the for-sale section on this forum. Virtually everything has come up for sale at some point.

[Mondo]

You can look in my profile... lots of pics of my Ultralite

[Bonjo2]

I got hooked after seeing one at vintage weekend at Limerock. Seeing the little silver and green cars swarm the jag, alfa and porsche's at the end of the straights under braking...

 

Many years later got a ride in a zetec caterham with way more power than needed. Hooked.

 

Did a bike powered locost, then got a stalker with a V8. They are all so much fun to drive. More like a sport bike than car. And the one's most like a sport bike the best experience.

 

I am sure someone on this board is close and could give you a ride.

 

Personally, the Cats and Westies always look best. Caterhams = simple, small, classic looks, crazy prices for $450 of steel and brazing. The Westfield is bigger, like the locost/stalker, but has amazing fiberglass bodywork that looks fantastic, especially in the Featherweight models. The locost can be made to look great, but most end up looking way off. The stalker, like locost, can look outstanding, or like muscle car mike loaded his cart at autozone. One great thing about the Stalker and many locosts, is that in the US, replacement parts are cheap.... Plus, larger tubing and simple design give a chassis capable of supporting a 500BPH power plant! Seems the Birkin and Superformance the one's I most often see, look good, but maybe a little too refined and car like, like the Panoz.

 

The problem with most sevens is folks always want more.. And, when you start modifying things too much without proper engineering support, the chassis welds and areas around welds can crack. Another issue is that all of these cars have drilled chassis tubes with dissimilar metals riveted on, so rust, oxidation, and galvanic corrosion a real issue--sometimes powder coating hides issue until total failure.

 

All the well sorted cars are a blast (doesn't apply to all locosts).

 

Get a ride and see if you can drive one of these lightweight marvels..