New Build

[lucky dawg]

Also a reminder that this is a kit https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.12.695

[Pokey]

You might want to consider cancelling your appointment and rescheduling for a different location with a different inspector.

 

That would be the rational thing to do and is probably what I'll wind up doing, just disappointing as I'm not sure when I'll be able to get another inspection scheduled. The WSP has apparently suffered layoffs as a result of COVID and all stations have been completely booked for as long as I've been looking - Yakima opened up one day a few weeks ago and that was almost immediately filled.

[Pokey]

Also a reminder that this is a kit https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.12.695

 

I know, right, it seems pretty cut and dry especially about airbags being necessary only if the car came with them originally. Nice guy though, and little point in arguing, so I've cancelled the appointment after talking to him one last time.

[lucky dawg]

I know, right, it seems pretty cut and dry especially about airbags being necessary only if the car came with them originally. Nice guy though, and little point in arguing, so I've cancelled the appointment after talking to him one last time.

Tough decision, but ultimately the right one.

[Croc]

That sucks. Usual story though, bureaucrats love to protect their asses

[Sean]

bureaucrats love to protect their asses

 

That sentence still works just as well with the nouns on either end swapped.

[Pokey]

That sentence still works just as well with the nouns on either end swapped.

 

I don't care which end I have to kiss, I just want a license plate...

[Lucky-7]

Here in PA it wasn't even brought up. It was built under what is called "Specially Constructed Vehicle". Can you do an "end around" and claim it is built as a "Street Rod" or Custom Built? After all technically you did build it yourself.

 

I was always under the assumption that such a low production vehicle was exempt from all kinds of federal B.S. Not everything but some items.

[Lucky-7]

Another way is to register it as, say a 1967, or whatever it takes. I've seen posts all over the net as our cars being registered like that. As far as resale, anyone who wants to buy one knows these stories. And knows the real story behind them.

 

I think that guy is yanking your chain. Go to the appointment loaded for bear with all kinds of examples of other cars registered like this. Chances are he'll back down.

 

Explain how they are being shipped here all the time without this nonsense.

[lucky dawg]

Another way is to register it as, say a 1967, or whatever it takes. I've seen posts all over the net as our cars being registered like that. As far as resale, anyone who wants to buy one knows these stories. And knows the real story behind them.

 

I think that guy is yanking your chain. Go to the appointment loaded for bear with all kinds of examples of other cars registered like this. Chances are he'll back down.

 

Explain how they are being shipped here all the time without this nonsense.

That's a great idea, telling a cop how to do their job. Now everyone else in the state can have their cars registrations' revoked, reclassified and then reinspected.

 

Every state has different requirements. Washington's have "evolved" over the last few years.

[Croc]

That's a great idea, telling a cop how to do their job. Now everyone else in the state can have their cars registrations' revoked, reclassified and then reinspected.

 

Every state has different requirements. Washington's have "evolved" over the last few years.

 

 

Thats how Texas had that mess a few years back over replicas. Someone was rejected, the owner came showing all these other cars registered. Issue bounced back up the chain and the decision was made to pull titles on some types of kit cars (e.g. beach buggies and Ariel Atoms).

 

 

I don't care which end I have to kiss, I just want a license plate...

 

I do think you have to talk to with the cop again and ask what are the rules for kit cars and where are they documented as regulations. Make it clear you want to understand as much as you can. He has to point you to a written regulation. It cannot be an interpretation in his head. If there are no written regulations then you have to ask him what the appeal process is and there will be one. Engagement is needed to gather all the background information so you can come up with a strategy to get through the process.

 

Your local friendly Caterham dealer may have suggestions or contacts to help you in this information gathering stage.

 

I feel your pain - I have been here myself with another state before - it is very frustrating.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Croc

[Lucky-7]

Taken from Washington's DOL.

Kit vehicles designed to look like older vehicles are called “replicas”. The make for replica vehicle is always “KITV”, regardless of the kit’s manufacturer. Using “KITV” as the make ensures the notation “REPLICA” appears on the title and registration as part of the series/body. In addition, the series/body for replica vehicles must describe what the vehicle looks like (for example, 57 MG, 65 Cobra, etc.). Enter KITV for kit vehicles that are replica vehicles, regardless of the make shown on the MCO or MSO. For Kit vehicles that are NOT replicas, the make is as shown on the MCO/MSO or as determined by a WSP inspection (dune buggy, roadster, etc.). Enter the make as shown on the MCO or MSO for KIT vehicles that are NOT replicas, or enter the make determined by a WSP inspection (dune buggy, roadster, etc.) For street rods, the make is the same as the originally manufactured vehicle (Chevy, Ford, etc.).

Our cars are technically a replica of a 1970 S3 Lotus 7

[Croc]

Is there somewhere in that literature where it says kit cars either have to comply with all Federal safety regs or are exempt?

[Pokey]

The inspector was a nice guy. He called me the day prior to discuss his concerns rather than have me surprised when I arrived. He had been on Caterham's website and was trying to figure out what it was he would be looking at. During our first conversation he asked about a federal sticker, presumably some sort of proof of exemption for the lack of air bags. It seemed to me that he was way out of his comfort zone, and given his location in a more rural part of Washington State I had concluded that he had never dealt with a kit car before. Since the conversation wasn't going anywhere I asked him if it would be okay if I did a bit of research myself to assist him. My thinking was I could substantiate why it should pass and take the burden off of him. He agreed, but the way he agreed made me feel like his mind was already made up.

 

When I called him later that day to discuss further, one of the first things he mentioned is that he called someone in Woodinville to get more information. I interpreted that to mean that he called our local dealer. According to the inspector, he asked pretty much all of the same questions he asked me and came to the same conclusion, he could approve the vehicle for off-road use only.

 

I'd like to say that licensing a kit car in Washington State is straightforward, and one might think so if just reading the guide (https://www.wsp.wa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/kit_vehicle_inspection_guide.pdf), but this sentence muddies it all up:

 

Also, your vehicle must comply with all of the equipment requirements of WAC Title 204 and RCW 46.37 to pass inspection and for a VIN to be assigned.

The inspector would need to be familiar with both the WAC and RCW sections referenced, which are fundamentally a description of things every vehicle is required to have:

 

https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.37

https://app.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=204

 

So this inspector, in order to do his job, would need to be familiar with, for example, the requirements for a windshield:

 

(1) The windshield must be framed and in such a position that it affords continuous horizontal frontal protection to the driver and front seat occupants. The minimum vertical height of the unobstructed windshield glass must be six inches, or as originally equipped by a recognized manufacturer.

(2) The vehicle must be provided with a windshield and side windows or openings which allow the driver a minimum outward horizontal vision capability, ninety degrees each side of a vertical plane passing through the fore and aft centerline of the vehicle. This range of vision:

(a) May be interrupted by window framing not exceeding four inches in width at each side location.

(b) Must have no obstruction forward of the windshield which extends more than two inches upward into the horizontally forward projected vision area of the windshield except windshield wiper components and hood ornaments identical to those originally installed by a recognized manufacturer. For the purposes of this section, the projected vision area of the windshield will be defined as that area above a line from the top of the steering wheel to the top of the front fenders or hood, whichever is higher.

 

I'm not making excuses for the guy, in my way of thinking he has a job and that job includes having an understanding of the regulations he is enforcing, but I can also appreciate that a guy pushing retirement and having never seen a kit car before might have forgotten some of the less interesting bits. In either case, it didn't seem prudent to risk failing inspection and having that follow me to the next time I tried. And I was also mindful to not create a wake of wreckage for others to dodge when their turn comes.

 

So for now I purchased three more "trip permits" that allow anything to be driven on the road in Washington State. Each permit is good for 3 contiguous days and you can have up to three in a 30 day period. And, yes, I do recognize the irony that despite not getting a pass from the inspector I will be blating around this weekend without any airbags. Heck, I may take off the windshield just to fully appreciate the wind and the irony.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Pokey

[lucky dawg]

Pokey - It looks like you may be saved by the Equipment Checklist beginning on page 3 of Kit Vehicle Inspection Guide. Print that off and bring it with you to your next appointment.

 

I know there have been some changes at the Bellevue WSP inspection lanes, but over the years they have seen a few Caterhams. Should have a little familiarity. Also, due to recent WAC interpretations, Collector Plates are no longer issued for replica or kit cars.

Edited September 2, 2020 by lucky dawg

[Croc]

Nice one Lucky Dawg - I was just trawling through the regs to educate myself.

 

The Sema summary is a good one:

https://www.semasan.com/semaga/TagTitleToolbox_WA.pdf

 

The inspection checklist is here

http://www.wsp.wa.gov/traveler/docs/inspection_guides/kit_vehicle_inspection_guide.pdf

 

 

There are kit car exemptions - quite a few. Reading the windscreen one, it says you do not have to comply if you do not have one. Just need to wear the right safety gear and have mounted mirrors. Aeroscreen time.

https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.37.410

 

I saw an air bag and a bumper bar exemption.

 

I think you just go through the regs - respond one by one in writing, quote the exemptions and give a nice neat package so he can connect the dots without having to do any intellectual work. Use it for your follow up discussions and progress the understanding mutually.

 

Wish they had regs as nice as this in my state.

[Pokey]

Pokey - It looks like you may be saved by the Equipment Checklist beginning on page 3 of Kit Vehicle Inspection Guide. Print that off and bring it with you to your next appointment.

 

I know there have been some changes at the Bellevue WSP inspection lanes, but over the years they have seen a few Caterhams. Should have a little familiarity. Also, due to recent WAC interpretations, Collector Plates or no longer issued for replica or kit cars.

 

I've been watching all of the inspections stations on the I-5 corridor waiting for an opening, checking several times a day. Bellevue is my first pick, but it is down to one lane so I'll have to get lucky with my timing. I'm thinking that Seatac and Tacoma should be relatively safe locations too, but at this point I'm checking them all.

[mdork]

I've been watching all of the inspections stations on the I-5 corridor waiting for an opening, checking several times a day. Bellevue is my first pick, but it is down to one lane so I'll have to get lucky with my timing. I'm thinking that Seatac and Tacoma should be relatively safe locations too, but at this point I'm checking them all.

 

Thanks for the updates Pokey - I’ve just given my deposit for a kit (also in Seattle area) so hoping not too much trouble for you. Hopefully you’ll get a plate while we still have this sunshine...

[lucky dawg]

Thanks for the updates Pokey - I’ve just given my deposit for a kit (also in Seattle area) so hoping not too much trouble for you. Hopefully you’ll get a plate while we still have this sunshine...

Welcome to the Seattle area group. Several very good and knowledgeable people here. Details on what you ordered?

[mdork]

Welcome to the Seattle area group. Several very good and knowledgeable people here. Details on what you ordered?

 

Thanks for the welcome. Look forward to joining the local 7 community. I’ll start a new thread once my build slot is sorted. Have been losing some sleep over Pokey’s predicament but hoping all is sorted soon.