7 Owners in the Bay Area / San Jose?

[GalloIgnacio]

That’s awesome, I could definitely swing a ride over there. I’d be up to Sonoma too but the kid is quite the handful right now and I work M-F. I assume your group is going up to Skyline somehow? I have a nice camera and would be happy to take rolling pictures of everyone. I know moving pictures are hard to come by. 

[sltous]

46 minutes ago, GalloIgnacio said:

That’s awesome, I could definitely swing a ride over there. I’d be up to Sonoma too but the kid is quite the handful right now and I work M-F. I assume your group is going up to Skyline somehow? I have a nice camera and would be happy to take rolling pictures of everyone. I know moving pictures are hard to come by. 

Likely, but I am not organizing the route.

[hahuang65]

@sltous@KnifeySpoonyhey guys, just wanted to pop back in and say, thanks for the ridealong offers for the 6th, but I won't be able to make it. I will be heading up to Kampena on the 13th to chat with Rich and maybe check out some of his stuff there.

 

Best wishes for your track day and hope you guys set some PRs!

 

For everyone else participating/interested in this thread:

I've been speccing a 420R and now I'm even wondering if I should drop down to the 360R.

 

If I did get the 360R, it is probably fairly easy to upgrade to the 420?

 

Also, what are some MUST-HAVE options (in your opinions of course) for the 420R and 360R? I've attached a sheet that I've specced out. I'm torn on carbon parts since I'll likely only do a track day once a year, IF that. I don't think I need to optimize for lightness there.

 

Any thoughts are appreciated!

Howard_Caterham.pdf

[KnifeySpoony]

Shift lights are kind of pointless on a street car (and not that necessary even on a track car).  I would consider the trackday rollbar, even if you never/seldom track it. How tall are you? Lowered floors if over 5'11" methinks. Also, i would go 13" wheels - looks better on ans s3, and better performance/ride quality. 

Edited October 4, 2022 by KnifeySpoony

[hahuang65]

@KnifeySpoony point taken on the shift lights, just a cool factor but yeah that can be cut out.

 

I'm only 5'6". I did sit in a SV and even that felt tight so that was a bit odd to me. But I would HIGHLY prefer a smaller chassis.

 

What's the reason for the track day rollbar? 

[sltous]

Strong agree on 13" wheels.  Also strong agree on lowered floors, even at 5'9" there is no way I'm going to pass a strict scrutineer's broomstick test without them.  I have a set slowly making their way from England via Rich.

 

The different suspension packs may feel quite different.  I preferred the stiffer Caterham suspension to the softer Birkin suspension but the Birkin is a much more comfortable cruising car.  I would recommend trying to sit in one or two of these if possible.

 

I am a strong aeroscreen proponent, the windscreen makes terrible wind buffeting and if you're taking a long freeway jaunt you'll want a helmet and if you're taking a short freeway jaunt you just shouldn't.

 

I notice you didn't add the upgraded front brakes, I don't have much of an opinion here, I have some temperature paint on my brakes and calipers and occasionally check with a temperature gun and they really don't get very hot on even relatively spirited street use, I expect to get a different result on track.  I didn't really like the feel of the brakes until adding an uprated brake cylinder though.

[KnifeySpoony]

The standard bar is shorter and more likely to fold in a rollover. Since you're short, the height isn't really an issue though.

[hahuang65]

4 minutes ago, sltous said:

The different suspension packs may feel quite different.  I preferred the stiffer Caterham suspension to the softer Birkin suspension but the Birkin is a much more comfortable cruising car.  I would recommend trying to sit in one or two of these if possible.

 

I am a strong aeroscreen proponent, the windscreen makes terrible wind buffeting and if you're taking a long freeway jaunt you'll want a helmet and if you're taking a short freeway jaunt you just shouldn't.

 

I notice you didn't add the upgraded front brakes, I don't have much of an opinion here, I have some temperature paint on my brakes and calipers and occasionally check with a temperature gun and they really don't get very hot on even relatively spirited street use, I expect to get a different result on track.  I didn't really like the feel of the brakes until adding an uprated brake cylinder though.

 

How do you know which suspension option is which?

 

I'm totally with you here on the aeroscreen. I've optioned the windshield primarily because of the wife. But... if she never rides in it maybe it's not a problem?

 

I would love to get the upgraded front brakes. Was wondering if it was necessary. They're certainly unnecessary on my STI, so I figured that's a pretty easy upgrade in the future if I wanted? For the uprated BMC, that's standard on the 420R.

 

For the 360R route... is the dry sump a must?

[KnifeySpoony]

Dry sump and uprated brakes are for track work. You will never need them on the street. There is no downside to uprated brakes on the street, but they are unnecessary. However, dry sump is actually a downside for a street driven car. Your oil will be perpetually overcooled.

[hahuang65]

2 minutes ago, KnifeySpoony said:

Dry sump and uprated brakes are for track work. You will never need them on the street. There is no downside to uprated brakes on the street, but they are unnecessary. However, dry sump is actually a downside for a street driven car. Your oil will be perpetually overcooled.

 

Not really a choice/option for the 420R though, as the dry-sump comes standard. Is it a big downside? I'm aspiring to occasionally track.

[KnifeySpoony]

Just don't install an oil temp gauge and ignorance is bliss. If you aspire to track it, then dry sump is certainly an asset. 

[sltous]

12 minutes ago, hahuang65 said:

point taken on the shift lights, just a cool factor but yeah that can be cut out.

That's the whole car!

 

3 minutes ago, hahuang65 said:

 

How do you know which suspension option is which?

 

I'm totally with you here on the aeroscreen. I've optioned the windshield primarily because of the wife. But... if she never rides in it maybe it's not a problem?

 

I would love to get the upgraded front brakes. Was wondering if it was necessary. They're certainly unnecessary on my STI, so I figured that's a pretty easy upgrade in the future if I wanted? For the uprated BMC, that's standard on the 420R.

 

For the 360R route... is the dry sump a must?

No idea, my current Caterham has Nitrons which I don't think are on any of the standard suspensions.

 

I have aeroscreeen and windscreen, it didn't look like you optioned the aeroscreen at all.  If you have mirrors mounted to both the swap over is pretty easy.

 

I have had some trouble with my uprated front brakes shuddering at street speeds, it's not a huge deal but the pads and rotors are both pretty expensive compared to the non uprated units.  Pretty easy to swap the rotors and pads but you might need to adjust brake balance?  https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=101&t=379616

 

2 minutes ago, hahuang65 said:

 

Not really a choice/option for the 420R though, as the dry-sump comes standard. Is it a big downside? I'm aspiring to occasionally track.

I suspect if you are just occasionally tracking you'll be very content with either wet or dry sump and either set of front brakes, even the 360 with standard brakes is more power and less weight than spec miata and they tear it up.

[hahuang65]

1 minute ago, sltous said:

I have aeroscreeen and windscreen, it didn't look like you optioned the aeroscreen at all.  If you have mirrors mounted to both the swap over is pretty easy.

 

I had only chosen the windscreen as I expected I'd only use that because of the wife, and cuz I just don't want to wear a helmet. Would love to be carefree and use the aeroscreen without a helmet all the time, but that's just not a good idea.

 

2 minutes ago, KnifeySpoony said:

Just don't install an oil temp gauge and ignorance is bliss. If you aspire to track it, then dry sump is certainly an asset. 

 

Fair enough, that's the situation on my STI anyways. They don't come with an oil temp gauge LOL.

3 minutes ago, sltous said:

pads and rotors are both pretty expensive compared to the non uprated units

 

You're telling me. My STI costs $4k to swap all rotors and pads at the dealer. Close to $2.5k if I do it myself. That's part of why I didn't go with the option for the 4 pots... Curious if you guys think it's nice to have for the track, I'll bet it is. Certainly looks awesome.

[GalloIgnacio]

I would do 360 personally. As far as engine standing the test of time I assume it would last longer all things being equal and this is a car I want my pass down to my children’s children as long as possible. Don’t know if it’s hot cams or higher compression but 360 just seems like a more reliable route?

 

I would do a track day roll cage, the one with the two radius half hoops. It seems like they would help to get in and out of the car. 
 

I agree on the 13’s. The 15’s if nothing else just look silly on a 7 IMO. 
 

I would do the brake upgrade from factory and probably wouldn’t plan on upgrades “down the road”. Just seems like a more expensive way to go about it. 
 

LED headlights just make sense, driving at night with bad lighting is no fun. 
 

Electrical cutoff for parking security around here? I would think that may help? Do people steal these? Seem like they would be difficult to hide once stolen.

[hahuang65]

8 minutes ago, GalloIgnacio said:

I agree on the 13’s. The 15’s if nothing else just look silly on a 7 IMO. 

Yeah... but the 15s look SOOOO much easier to clean ROFL.

 

9 minutes ago, GalloIgnacio said:

Electrical cutoff for parking security around here? I would think that may help? Do people steal these? Seem like they would be difficult to hide once stolen.

 

Partially... the manual is another part of that... also... if you get the quick release steering wheel, that's 3 theft deterrents!

[JohnCh]

I wouldn't blame the dry sump for over cooling.  Yes, the large thermal mass of oil that is separate from the block does affect temps, but the car has a large oil cooler with no thermostat.  Some block this off for street use, some fit a thermostat, and some bypass it with a water-based oil cooler like a Mocal.  

 

I've run both the stock cams as fitted to the 360, and the Kent Dtec10 which are a near match for the cams used in the 420.  In my experience, there was no downside to the cam upgrade as these still have a mild profile.  Power was marginally lower below 2000rpm (although still plentiful) but stronger over 3000rpm with a lot more eagerness at high rpm.  

 

I was on the fence with respect to the brake upgrade.  I hate the additional unsprung weight and question the need vs. dedicated pads for track work, but ultimately went with them given the power increase I'll have from stock.  A part of me still regrets that decision.

 

13" wheels.  Yes.  Every time.  I could feel the difference when switching from 14" wheels.  

 

-John

[hahuang65]

3 hours ago, JohnCh said:

I was on the fence with respect to the brake upgrade.  I hate the additional unsprung weight and question the need vs. dedicated pads for track work, but ultimately went with them given the power increase I'll have from stock.  A part of me still regrets that decision.

 

You'd recommend the 2 pot brakes, even for on-track usage?

 

Also what really is the difference between the 360R and the 420R? Is it just the cams, dry sump and ECU tune? Everything else is the same (including cosmetically)? I'm trying to figure out if I should just go down to the 360R and see if enough car for me, and upgrade the performance if I really wanted to?

Edited October 5, 2022 by hahuang65

[JohnCh]

44 minutes ago, hahuang65 said:

 

You'd recommend the 2 pot brakes, even for on-track usage?

 

No, just sharing information to consider.  It's not just a cost decision.  The 4 pots with their much heavier discs add a lot of unsprung weight which is not a good thing, particularly in such a light car.  Over the years I've seen a number of people report the 2 pots with good pads work fine for them on track.  I've also seen some people complain of fade.  It comes down to a combination of the car's power, the tracks driven, and the driver's speed. 

 

44 minutes ago, hahuang65 said:

Also what really is the difference between the 360R and the 420R? Is it just the cams, dry sump and ECU tune? Everything else is the same (including cosmetically)? I'm trying to figure out if I should just go down to the 360R and see if enough car for me, and upgrade the performance if I really wanted to?

 

Engine wise it's the cams, ECU tune, and dry sump.  The cam manufacturer recommends HD valve springs, which I'm assuming Caterham include, but I've never read confirmation of that addition.  I'm not aware of other differences between the two models, but others here may know if they exist.

 

-John

[Croc]

12 hours ago, hahuang65 said:

 

Not really a choice/option for the 420R though, as the dry-sump comes standard. Is it a big downside? I'm aspiring to occasionally track.

 

The dry sump is desirable for road use - it gives more ground clearance underneath especially if you select the 13" inch wheel.   The oil temps are a function of the oil cooler.   The overcooling effect is not as pronounced as you might expect since the engine water temp regulation does serve to underpin the oil temps from getting too cold.   I'd take the dry sump option for ground clearance alone plus its a good idea since you occasionally want to track.     

[Croc]

4 hours ago, hahuang65 said:

 

You'd recommend the 2 pot brakes, even for on-track usage?

 

 

Sure.  I have a race car with double the weight of a Caterham running 2 pots on the front and it survives.  People over brake momentum cars anyway.  After all these years of track miles I have never had brake fade on a Caterham (or the original Lotus 7 S2).   People are out there running the standard fronts on track in fun events.  If you get fade then I bet I could find a driver induced reason.

 

I can think of a track buddy with a 420R who got 6 track use years out of his brake pads (4pot vented discs).  Then there is me with the CSR (4 pot vented discs) with 12 years track use on the pads and another 10 years on the fronts left.  Lap times are comparable if you equalize for power.  But then I drive as I learned to on V8 supercars which only had brakes for the first 3 laps then went out to lunch with fade.  

 

The 4 pots vented discs are really nice and do improve stopping power but you really only notice it if you are really pushing on hard on track.  If you wwre going for more power say a R500 or 620R then the higher speeds would recommend improved stopping performance as the heat build up becomes a factor.  If in doubt then go for the upgrade.

 

I would recommend the uprated brake master cylinder irrespective of 2 or 4 pot caliper choice.