alcohol damage?

[Christopher smith]

Does anyone have personal, good or bad, experience using unleaded fuel in an old 7? I have the 1500 Cortina with 2x40DCOE2, 10.2 to 1, electric pumps, ATL Sports Cell and new fuel lines. I have been using Sunoco 110 octane but really do not need 110 so diluting it a bit with local premium may be of interest. I do have the old unhardened valve seats so will still want some lead in the mix.

[SENC]

I'm running mine on ethanol-free unleaded with Redline lead substitute and some boostane octane additive, but too soon after rebuild to have any good feedback on impact.  I think the general consensus on our Elans is that the original engines have proven fine on unleaded without modification, if that helps at all.

[7Westfield]

I run 91 premium non-alky in my 1600

If running pump gas, stay away from ethanol. Check your fuel cell, not all are rated for alcohol.

[Christopher smith]

I think all the gas station fuel in my area has some ethanol all year.

[SENC]

I use https://www.pure-gas.org/ to find non-ethanol gas when I'm in an area I don't know, has seemed pretty accurate.

 

I would put ethanol in my (old) cars in a pinch, but I'd run it out and replace it as quickly as I could.

[coffee break]

There are fuel additives that are to counteract the ethanol. There is no-ethanol gas available, but the octane is lower that I care to use.

[Christopher smith]

Seems there are at least 2 areas of concern with ethanol doped fuel for old cars. Some of my parts, like the DCOE2 carbs, were designed back in the late 1950s maybe. So I was concerned about the difference in solvency aspect on any rubber parts and of course the foam in my ATL fuel cell. Alcohols ( ethanol, methanol and isopropyl) are quite different than hydrocarbons and you hear rumors that long term use might cause seal failures although I have not seen any really solid info on this type of failure. The other aspect is very different and that is the alcohol's attraction to water and possible line freezing or separation of an alcohol-water mix. I looked into avgas 100LL  ( $8/gallon) and understand it might fit the bill if you can find a friend at the local airport. I guess I will stay with the racing fuel and not try to save money since I do not use the car for long or cold trips anyway and the lead lubricates the valve seats.  I should mention that in boosting octane ratings when refiners had to take out the lead, they have used significant content of aromatic hydrocarbons like toluene and xylene ( I hope no benzene) so be careful of the toxicity. Thanks for all the inputs.

[MV8]

Quite a range of head gasket thicknesses available for the pre-crossflow. I wonder if it was a just a gasket change. Pushrod length would need to be taken into account but you could drop that down to a non-ethanol  pump friendly ratio and tweak the static timing if needed.

https://www.cometic.com/applications/automotive/ford/pre-crossflow-ohv-kent/15l--0ci15l-i4

 

As for 100ll, it's still a lot of lead compared to auto fuel. Generally a credit card machine and grounding clamps but somebody would need to show you the procedure once for filling your cans.

 

Another issue is the actual percentage changes with the season and filling of the station's in-ground tank. A busy station is safer.

Edited September 19, 2022 by MV8

[oilteq]

Sorry about the slow response, but I would like to add to the discussion about gasoline and additives.

Christopher is right about solvency.  When 10% ethanol is added to gasoline, the mixture becomes more aggressive than either the alcohol or gasoline alone.  Alcohol blends can absorb water.  Then when the solvency drops due to lower temperatures, the water/alcohol mixture can fall out of suspension.  It is more an issue for boats without evaporative canisters on the fuel tank, and a very humid environment.  Not much of a risk for us, unless your fuel supplier is extending his supply with water.

Ethanol an oxygenate--carries oxygen into the cylinder with the fuel, enleaning the mixture.  If your engine was tuned using alcohol free fuel, using E10 or higher can cause it to knock.  If your engine was set on kill, changing to an ethanol blend can cause damage.  Stoichiometric AFR for gasoline is 14.7:1 , but ~14.1 for E10.

I am very skeptical of lead substitutes and octane boosters.  In 1988, as the wide nozzle system was practically gone, the EPA and USDA reported the results of a joint study Report to the President and Congress on the Need for Leaded Gasoline on the Farm.  The pages were not numbered, but I would guess it is about 200 pages long.  The intent was to prove that lead substitutes could replace lead.  They proved the opposite.  They tested products from Du Pont, Polar Molecular, and Lubrizol, which dominated the market and sold to blenders for a hundred different brands of lead substitutes.  Lubrizol’s additive was the only one to have a partial success, when used at four times the recommended rate in a 454 with induction hardened seats, but still more valve recession than 0.1 grams of tetraethyl lead per gallon.

Most octane improvers contain toluene, which is also an aggressive paint thinner.  It has a very high octane (~120), but doing a weighted average, you can see a pint bottle in a 25 gallon tank does not really move the needle.

[Saudio]

My liver is fine, thanks for asking.