My Driving Impressions, Thoughts and Questions

[rider]

I had a great opportunity to meet with Jim @kayentaskier and Gregory @Silber in Park City, UT. Gregory's Birkin had an issue possibly due to high altitude; so, he couldn't join the drive. We met at a mountain ski place, with a stunning view of the city along the route. Jim drove his 420R one way; I drove on the way back. Jim is a gentleman, a Sports Car Purist and a Seven Connoisseur! I appreciate his gesture a great deal. I took the road trip from Minneapolis in the Miata.

 

Here are my observations and thoughts.

 

Steering: Wow! This is how a sports car's steering should feel! A standard production car with assisted steering can never feel like this. Just incredible. This alone is worth the price of entry! Jim noted the bigger wheel option would be a better choice; so, will go with that.

 

Transmission, Shifter: No surprise here: I got what I expected since they come from Miata! Miata's 5-Speed was and is the best ever! I still remember the transmission and the shifting feel from my Gen 1 (NA) Miata.

 

However, I was shocked how badly the shifter was positioned, directly below, at the edge of the dash! I couldn't place my hand on the top of the shifter as I usually do, being blocked/hindered by the bottom edge of the dash. They could have simply moved the placement toward the driver by an inch. Even more shocking, I've never heard this from anyone before! I have  read and watched a TON of reviews of Seven, over many years. Not a single reviewer mentioned this. But, it was the very first thing I stumbled on when I put my hand on the shifter! It just reminds me, regardless what everyone says, unless you get to experience it, you will never truly know! You got to touch and feel!

 

Ingress/Egress: Not as bad as some have made them out to be. Just takes a bit of practice. Since i plan to spec Trackday Roll Cage, it should help with getting in and out. I was actually meaning to try getting in and out a few times so that I can memorize the feeling. Forgot. Missed opportunity!

 

One thing I need to answer myself is, can I still be able to get in and out in my 80s, assuming I stay fit as I do now?

 

Windscreen: Jim's 420R has Aero Screen with no doors. I'll have Windshield and Side Doors with Arm Rest. Got hit a couple of times with tiny stones/pebbles! These days, I'm over-conscious about minimizing/eliminating wind noise in open-top cars and motorcycles.

 

Standard Floor: Jim has Lowered Floor. I'm a short dude (5'8"); and, I couldn't see out over the opaque Aero Screen!! So, he had to prop me up with a big towel placed on the seat. So, yeah, no Lowered Floor for me!

 

But, would I have been fine with a standard Windshield as opposed to opaque screen which blocked a crucial few inches? Need to find out.

 

Seat Position: This is bit of a bummer. With the seat moved all the way forward, I couldn't depress the clutch pedal all the way down to the floor. Just short by an inch or less! So, he had to find another rug to place behind my back to help out this short dude! An inch of pedal extension would help.

 

Jim mentioned about Pedal Blocks. If anyone here tried them?

 

Not sure if these would help:
-  Pedal Rubber for Brake, Clutch

Transmission Tunnel Cover: This got to be in Alcantara! Leather (Jim's has Vinyl on custom Tunnel Cover) just wouldn't work. The parts of the cover exposed to sun got super hot. So, placing the hand for support when getting in and out or moving the arm a bit when driving was not doable due to heat. 'evo' magazine's 420R has Alcantara, which is exactly what I plan to do.

 

Seats: These need to be Alcantara as well. evo magazine's car has Houndstooth/Pepita seat covers. I would go further and make the entire seating area in Alcantara. Need to check with Caterham.

 

Road Grip and Feel: Wow! This totally lives up to the reputation of being the Purist's Sports Car! Don't know if any other road car can even come remotely close! Just phenomenal! Sports Car of Sports Cars! Everything in it is alive and telepathic!

 

Clutch, Brake Pedals: The unassisted pedals will need a lot of mental re-calibration! I'll get used to it. However, when switching between regular Sports Cars and the Seven, re-calibration is critical. As it happened, after just about 15 minutes of drive in the Seven, watched Jim drive away, I got back in the humble Miata. I left the parking lot and when I braked for the first time at the end of the parking drive way, I applied more pressure on the brake pedal than needed! Yeah, the brain was still living in the Seven World!!

 

General Notes:

- It was a visceral and sensory overload: An elemental Sports Car with unassisted controls, Light Weight Flywheel, having to adjust the shift pattern (grip on the side as opposed to top as I'm used to) due to shifter placement issue, unfamiliar and challenging mountain road (with no guardrails at some sections), not able to see behind or sides (due to unadjusted mirrors), lack of windshield and doors and the resulting wind buffeting, etc.!

 

- As if the visceral and sensory overloads weren't enough, I was stung by a bee at the start of the drive!! So, for the entire drive, I was in sharp pain, distracting me! Never been stung by a bee before; so, that was another first! The pain lasted all the way into the night! At least, it added to the story!

 

- During the later part of the drive, my hat got dislodged to the back of the head due to heavy wind buffeting. It caused the chin strap to land on the neck and started cutting into! Yeah, should have expected it! Another distraction!

 

Summary:

 

LOVED it! There are few caveats, as explained above. They are likely solvable. Very addictive. I can drive this at every available opportunity! In the age of highly sanitized Sports Cars, Seven is an anachronism. Sticking a middle-finger to posers! For the masses focused on turbo low-end torque and 0-60 times, Seven leads the way and stunningly demonstrates you can have more fun and feel alive at street-legal speeds! I need to have a car like Seven in my driving life!

 

Questions:

- Shifter Position: This is an issue to me; may not be to others. Jim mentioned shortening the shaft. Has anyone tried any other mod? How are you dealing with it?

- Ideas on moving the seat further forward or the pedal extensions, by an inch?
 - Fuel Filler Issue? Jim mentioned some of you have had an issue inserting the fuel pump into the tank at the gas station (he doesn't have the issue).

 

 

 

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by rider

[KnifeySpoony]

Shifter is remedied by getting the knob to sit lower. The hole in the knob is pretty deep, just need to tap the threads a little deeper and screw it down more. Or just twist it hard and let the steel shaft tap its own way into the alu knob like i did. Solved the issue completely for me. 

[Vovchandr]

Are you looking at SV models or S3?

 

The green one appears to be SV

 

I'm 5ft 7 and have no issues with teaching pedals in an S3 for what it's worth 

[MV8]

About the pedal position: I've seen on earlier CATs where there are two longitudinal mounting locations for the bolt that the pedals rotate on, with a two position clevis on the pushrod that could change pedal pad position an inch or so without any modification.

 

 

[JohnCh]

As per @Vovchandr there is a noticeable difference in size between the SV and S3.  You should find an S3 with standard floors and see how that fits.  I suspect it will be much better.  Below is an overhead shot that illustrates the size difference between the two.  Pay particular attention to the interior comparison.  It's not subtle.

 

 

The shifter height in relationship to the dash bottom doesn't bother me at all.  I quickly adjusted to moving my hand forward to rest on the gear knob rather than drop it on from overhead.  My gripe with location is it's a little further forward than ideal for me given the steering wheel location.  But again, it's something you quickly get used to after driving for a bit.

 

-John

[theDreamer]

I came across an interesting car that sold by auction in 2022 and is now up for sale by a high end dealer. I think someone went a little to extreme in lowering the shift knob. The first photo is from the auction ad. The second is from the current ad and you can see it is now much lower.

[rider]

19 hours ago, KnifeySpoony said:

Shifter is remedied by getting the knob to sit lower. The hole in the knob is pretty deep, just need to tap the threads a little deeper and screw it down more. Or just twist it hard and let the steel shaft tap its own way into the alu knob like i did. Solved the issue completely for me. 

 

Are you saying, the builders are not threading the Shifter Knob all the way down to its final resting spot? That is, they choose to stop threading down leaving unused space in the hole of the Knob? If you don't mean that, then, once the Knob is threaded all the way down, how could you go any further? Sorry, I'm unclear.

 

 

13 hours ago, Vovchandr said:

Are you looking at SV models or S3?

 

The green one appears to be SV

.....

 

SV. Yes, Jim's car is SV.

 

8 hours ago, MV8 said:

About the pedal position: I've seen on earlier CATs where there are two longitudinal mounting locations for the bolt that the pedals rotate on, with a two position clevis on the pushrod that could change pedal pad position an inch or so without any modification.

 

 

 

So, the pedals can be positioned forward at the alternate mounting point? Do you know: If the 420 has these alternate mounting points? And, if that is applicable to all three pedals? If you're unsure, no big deal; it's a data point I can check on. Thanks.

 

 

8 hours ago, JohnCh said:

As per @Vovchandr there is a noticeable difference in size between the SV and S3. .......  It's not subtle.

 

The shifter height in relationship to the dash bottom doesn't bother me at all. ......  But again, it's something you quickly get used to after driving for a bit.

 

-John

 

That's a great picture, John; thanks. Never seen that before. Helps to understand the dimensions between the two. But, my choice is SV. I really do need the extra space in the pedal box; and, the cabin space. Don't wanna rub shoulder with my passenger and fight for the arm rest! I wanna make the Cabin space as less limiting as practically possible for the girl friend. And, Jim did suggest S3 to consider.

 

As for the Shifter, if I can't resolve the issue, will retrain and adjust myself. It just bothers me that people (Caterham) don't attempt to iterate and constantly tweak to make everything better, over time, without compromising the core ethos. Literally everyone is looking for the Easy Button!

 

 

 

1 hour ago, theDreamer said:

.......I think someone went a little to extreme in lowering the shift knob. ...........

 

Damn, that is hilarious! So, I wouldn't be the only one who would resort to extreme measures.......!

 

 

[Frankie]

Excellent appraisal Rider and I hope your drive and stay in our State was as good as the smile i can see on your face. I was very disappointed that I wasn't able to meet with you for that gorgeous drive. Next time you make the long trip back to Utah make sure you contact me so I can join you on another drive. Maybe with a new 7? I'm still stuck in bureaucratic quick sand with my emission problem with the Salt Lake County Health Department.  All I have to say about that, at this time, is!  Beware of the bureaucrat!   

[MV8]

1 hour ago, rider said:

 

So, the pedals can be positioned forward at the alternate mounting point? Do you know: If the 420 has these alternate mounting points? And, if that is applicable to all three pedals? If you're unsure, no big deal; it's a data point I can check on. Thanks.

The alternate point can be seen in figure 39 "brake switch harness" of the 2015 420 assembly guide. The pivot point moves about an inch but the pedal pad would move further than that if the effective push rod length is not changed.I don't have any info about the throttle pedal.

[rider]

On 8/20/2023 at 3:24 PM, Frankie said:

Excellent appraisal Rider and I hope your drive and stay in our State was as good as the smile i can see on your face. ...........Beware of the bureaucrat!   

 

Thanks, @Frankie. Yes, the visit to Park City was quite awesome! People are friendly. And, Park City is quite beautiful. Kinda looks and feels like an Alpine European city! Would have been cool to have you in your Seven along. Too bad you're having difficulties getting through the process. Get creative and hammer through...!

 

My situation is bit more complicated for the following reasons:

- My potential move to CA (San Diego). So, will need to make sure Seven is registrable in CA and MN. I will literally have to go through the reg process in both the states. Register in CA first; then transfer to MN.

- However, I've a 718 Spyder (gen 982) which is modified, for sound. It isn't too loud; somewhat comparable to my 981 gen Spyder which is stock. But, CA is cracking down on sound. So, it'll fail visual (since parts aren't stock) and sound (potentially); but, pass smog. When I get pulled over (a certainty!!), it will get flagged; and, if it fails (potentially), no way I would wanna roll back to stock since the car sounds plain stupid without the mods!  Due to regs, Porsche completely destroyed the traditional sound. I absolutely love the car the way I have it setup; and, a few other mods planned as well.

- So, if I don't move to CA, then what's the alternative city? I need to get the hell outta of this Frozen Tundra! How will this unknown city/state be regarding Seven reg?

 

See my complications?

obligatory picture:

 

 

On 8/20/2023 at 5:14 PM, MV8 said:

The alternate point can be seen in figure 39 "brake switch harness" of the 2015 420 assembly guide. The pivot point moves about an inch but the pedal pad would move further than that if the effective push rod length is not changed.I don't have any info about the throttle pedal.

 

Thanks, @MV8. Will take note of this. Attaching an inch of block on the pedals might work as well. Talking to builder/sales person could open up some ideas.

 

[KnifeySpoony]

Do you need to smog late-model vehicles upon bringing them to CA? For new cars sold in CA, there is no smog checks for the first 8 years.

[rider]

I believe all out of state vehicles being transferred would need to be smog-tested. All my current vehicles will pass smog except F4; will need to put back the mid-pipe with Cat.

 

[KnifeySpoony]

There are no smog checks or inspections for bikes in CA. If the bike was 50 state legal at time of sale, then you have no issue. If not, then the bike needs a minimum of 7500miles on it to be able to import to CA.

 

[rider]

@KnifeySpoony: Good to know. The F4 was 50-State legal; so, should be good. However, I do plan to sell it, most likely; so, it's moot. Sent you a PM with some questions; please take a look. Thanks.

 

[CatManDo]

I wouldn't mess with the pedals. Moving the seat forward an inch is as easy as drilling 4 holes in the floor panel when you install the seat. The mounting holes aren't special, just 8mm holes through thin aluminum sheet. Seat belts are plenty long. Also I wouldn't recommend S3 chassis unless you really love it. It is very tight if you plan on a passenger and resale is harder.

[rider]

@CatManDo: Thanks. Like the idea of drilling additional holes at the front of most forward position. In fact, will find out if Caterham can do it during the build, if Factory Build option is chosen. If Kit, the Builder could do it. Of course, the seat position will be fixed for me then.

 

Agree with S3's downsides. The SV felt snug enough for the driver and passenger. I absolutely wouldn't want any more tight fit. The pedal box space is critical as well.

 

The car needs to be inviting and not demanding too many compromises. It will get old real fast. I'm looking forward to driving this well into ripe old age, as long as I maintain fitness and motor skills....!

 

[BirkinBernie]

I have a '94 Miata gearbox in my Birkin behind a Zetec.  I had the same issue you mentioned with the shift lever being too close to the dash.  I started out with the complete Miata shift lever which you can see in the very early pic of my car's interior.  What I found is that the part of the shift lever with the threads is a shell that is bonded with rubber to the stub of the actual shifter.  I peeled this shell away and removed the rubber to find a short metal stub just the right diameter for 1/2-20 threads.  The knob is aluminum turned on a lathe.  I have tried a couple of shapes but like this one best.  It could be shorter if one preferred - you can see in the pic without the knob how long the stub is.

 

BTW, my seats are red, not orange.  I guess my phone doesn't like the LED lights in my shop!

 

Happy Motoring!

 

[rider]

@BirkinBernie: Thanks for sharing. I plan to find out if the shifter shaft can be shortened by 1/2" to 3/4". If there is room, can Factory do it during the build, or the local Builder if Kit. To me, placing my hand on top of the Shifter is natural as opposed to on the side. For some shifts, like going from top to bottom (1-2, 3-4, 5-6), placing the hand on the side feels natural too.